What is the case against honey?

[Hightower]

I've read that vegans don't eat honey and so far I haven't found any arguments against it that I personally find important. I'm not really concerned with the welfare of insects, whether for their honey or for their silk. Bees are great and I appreciate them for their impacts on the environment, but I simply have no qualms with bee farms as long as they don't affect the environment. Is there an argument against honey that I haven't seen that I should consider? Thank you.

[Neptual]

We already have posts related to this. Please feel free to visit this website http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

[TheVeganAtheist]

I've read that vegans don't eat honey and so far I haven't found any arguments against it that I personally find important. I'm not really concerned with the welfare of insects, whether for their honey or for their silk. Bees are great and I appreciate them for their impacts on the environment, but I simply have no qualms with bee farms as long as they don't affect the environment. Is there an argument against honey that I haven't seen that I should consider? Thank you.

the link that dan1073 is definitely something you should read over. Why do you dismiss concern over insects, specifically bees? What attribute, or lack thereof justifies no concern?

[brimstoneSalad]

All other arguments about the welfare of bees aside,

Honey is nutritionally nearly identical to high fructose corn syrup, except that it's more likely to be contaminated with pathogens. It's just sugar that was chewed up, mixed with saliva, partially digested, and then regurgitated/vomited up by insects.

There's no nutritional reason to eat it, it's more expensive than good old fashioned sugar (which is also healthier for you due to lower fructose content- although still not healthy), it's dangerous for young children to eat (or those with compromised immune systems) -- why bother?


If there's something you really really want to eat (can't find good alternatives) that incidentally has a little honey in it, or say if you're in a hotel with free breakfast and you can only find things with honey somewhere in the ingredients, chances are there's only a small amount in them, so I'd say go for it.

But I'd recommend not going out of your way to buy/use honey. There's no point in it. Deliberately choosing a more expensive form of corn syrup (there are artificial honey flavors that are just as good IMO, and cheaper), without any nutritional benefits and possible risk is crazy.


Excessive use of honey may also be linked to colony collapse disorder, although that hasn't been proved yet.

[brimstoneSalad]

We already have posts related to this. Please feel free to visit this website http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

I wouldn't refer people to that site; sure, honey isn't vegan by definition, because veganism has a very narrow definition if 'properly' defined, but primarily appealing to authority of definition is only going to make veganism look dogmatic.

The same goes for "exploitation" without substantial and demonstrated harm. The site owner even says it's wrong to exploit plants and the planet (really?). I don't see anything wrong with exploitation aside from the use of the word, which is emotionally loaded but really just means using something for one's benefit- I see something wrong with harm, and the two are not synonymous.

I think the question is regarding the case against honey on moral and otherwise rational grounds, or that should be how it is properly regarded.

Deontological veganism isn't very attractive to most people; it comes off as dogmatic, and it is: "this is the definition of veganism, and that's that".

When it comes to real pragmatic arguments, nutritional and financial arguments are going to be the best bet.
Morally speaking, I don't think that honey production should be the flagship issue of veganism, and if we can find allies on all other grounds, I think in most cases it's trivial enough to ignore (particularly since it is possible to sustainably harvest honey, even if few people do it- we should advocate that practice instead, beyond nutritional and economic concerns).

I'd rather push the lesser of evils on this topic, debunk the bad health claims with prejudice, and otherwise let the rest slide when there are much bigger issues to contend with- I think squabbling within the vegan community over the ideological aspects of honey is counterproductive.

[PrincessPeach]

Bees polinate a lot of things from apples, kiwis, almonds, cashews, strawberries & so much more..
We have to breed bee's specifically for these crops and IMO that is a good a thing I wouldn't consider that exploitation ..
What I don't like is these companies taking the bee's honey & putting them into their foods as sweeteners..
For instance natures path's organic's I've been purchasing their products on/off over the past two years and now within these past 6 months almost every new item the come out with has honey in it! Why? My hypothesis is,
The demand for their crops became higher, thus leading to the need for more bees to polinate their crops leaving them with more honey to take, less money budgeted on real sweeteners and more honey in our foods..

[brimstoneSalad]

What I don't like is these companies taking the bee's honey & putting them into their foods as sweeteners..

They do that because the honey industry has launched a very successful propaganda campaign to convince people that honey is a healthier and more natural sweetener.
They have convinced these companies that adding honey as a sweetener is either good, or that their customers want it.

My hypothesis is,
The demand for their crops became higher, thus leading to the need for more bees to polinate their crops leaving them with more honey to take, less money budgeted on real sweeteners and more honey in our foods..

Honey is more expensive than other sweeteners, and less healthy than high fructose corn syrup,

They do it because the consumers are naive and have been duped by the honey industry, just as the last generation was duped by the dairy industry.

Pollination doesn't automatically equal extra Honey -- they have to actively feed the bees sugar (which also costs money) in order to take that honey.
It's always cheaper just to sweeten with sugar, and leave the honey for the bees.

[Hightower]

The link that was given made claims that are contrary to all that I've heard so far from bee experts, including a bee expert that was on Minnesota NPR a while back that I found interesting. I'm inclined not to believe that the website is a good resource of information.

Thanks to all that replied. The best arguments I've heard is that sugar is healthier and that honey is more of a marketing campaign which makes sense. But does honey taste better? I don't know personally, I've rarely in my life ever bought a jar of honey, only sugar.

As for the question that theveganatheist brought up, It's surprisingly hard to answer that question. The only argument I can come up with that doesn't also apply to things I do care about is that insects are too small and too numerous for me to bother considering. We live on different scales, and it's much easier for me to empathize with my fellow mammals.

[PrincessPeach]

Honey is more expensive than other sweeteners, and less healthy than high fructose corn syrup,

They do it because the consumers are naive and have been duped by the honey industry, just as the last generation was duped by the dairy industry.

Pollination doesn't automatically equal extra Honey -- they have to actively feed the bees sugar (which also costs money) in order to take that honey.
It's always cheaper just to sweeten with sugar, and leave the honey for the bees.

I thought they only gave bees sugar when they took away their honey...? If the bees are pollinating I wouldn't see why they would need to give them sugar... ?

[PrincessPeach]

Honey is more expensive than other sweeteners, and less healthy than high fructose corn syrup,

They do it because the consumers are naive and have been duped by the honey industry, just as the last generation was duped by the dairy industry.

Pollination doesn't automatically equal extra Honey -- they have to actively feed the bees sugar (which also costs money) in order to take that honey.
It's always cheaper just to sweeten with sugar, and leave the honey for the bees.

This honey shit is on the rise my mother now uses it in her coffee by the tablespoons thinking it is better than sugar, would you please give me some links to reliable resources I could reference her?