Veganism Refuted

[brimstoneSalad]

I add nutritional yeast to some of my food (pasta, rice etc) and I think in the amounts I use I am getting my daily requirement that way. Anyone else do this? I find it a good substitute or cheese in some of my dishes.

It's a good source of nutrients, and if it's fortified with B-12 you might get a little, but it might not be quite enough on its own particularly since B-12 is light sensitive.
Since tablets are something like a penny a day, I think it's worth it for the peace of mind.

[Jebus]

It's a good source of nutrients, and if it's fortified with B-12 you might get a little, but it might not be quite enough on its own particularly since B-12 is light sensitive.
Since tablets are something like a penny a day, I think it's worth it for the peace of mind.

Agreed. I put B-12 fortified n.y on almost all my food but it's probably not enough on its own.

[brimstoneSalad]

Agreed. I put B-12 fortified n.y on almost all my food but it's probably not enough on its own.

I would say it's probably enough, maybe a 90% chance you're getting plenty. But a 10% chance of deficiency isn't worth it, since a tablet costs almost nothing and there's no risk in taking it now and then. And if you were unlucky enough for it to not be enough, symptoms of deficiency aren't fun.

[teo123]

I think the best response to this B12-argument is something along the lines of: "I'm worried about not getting enough B12, therefore I'll eat meat... that may not actually contain any B12. Apart from the fishes, the animals the meat in the supermarket comes from are being constantly fed with antibiotics which, among other things, kill the bacteria in the animal intestines that produce B12.".

[teo123]

Not, really, why isn't that argument used more often? That would make meat-eaters realize there is another side of the story they are unaware of, and not only would that shut them up, but that would also perhaps make them willing to learn.

[brimstoneSalad]

I think the best response to this B12-argument is something along the lines of: "I'm worried about not getting enough B12, therefore I'll eat meat... that may not actually contain any B12. Apart from the fishes, the animals the meat in the supermarket comes from are being constantly fed with antibiotics which, among other things, kill the bacteria in the animal intestines that produce B12.".

Well the meat does contain B-12 despite that, because they add it into the food. Farmed animals are just as dependent on B-12 as humans are; they probably wouldn't survive to market weight with deficiency.

Of course then you're just taking a supplement indirectly.

[teo123]

I think the best response to this B12-argument is something along the lines of: "I'm worried about not getting enough B12, therefore I'll eat meat... that may not actually contain any B12. Apart from the fishes, the animals the meat in the supermarket comes from are being constantly fed with antibiotics which, among other things, kill the bacteria in the animal intestines that produce B12.".

Well the meat does contain B-12 despite that, because they add it into the food. Farmed animals are just as dependent on B-12 as humans are; they probably wouldn't survive to market weight with deficiency.

Of course then you're just taking a supplement indirectly.

Then I was once again spreading misinformation on Internet forums (though I doubt I will be caught on that). What's a reliable source for that kind of stuff?

[NoOrdninaryWords]

I would basically respond with blood tests. I don't know if you occasionally have your blood tested. But this shows directly if you get enough nutrients or not. There are also insufficiencies which are common not only in vegan people. For example vitamin D or iron. Also for example my vegetarian partner had a B12 insufficiency and needs to supplement now, too. I think having your blood levels checked occasionally really helps to prove it is not unhealthy to live vegan. There are not many supplements we need as long as we follow a healthy, balanced diet. Another point: eating animal products does not mean automatically a healthy diet is followed, as well as a vegan can eat junk food.

[Lay Vegan]

I would basically respond with blood tests. I don't know if you occasionally have your blood tested. But this shows directly if you get enough nutrients or not.

Routine blood tests often do not measure for B12 levels, and more importantly a test that shows a serum B12 level within the normal range (250 picograms per milliliter) doesn’t ensure that B12 levels are healthy.

https://veganhealth.org/serum-b12-levels/

For example, sea vegetables are filled with inactive analogue compounds that can falsely inflate serum B12 levels on a blood test. MMA tests might be more reliable, but they can’t tell you how long your status will be adequate while not getting a reliable source of the vitamin. They’re also costly, because of course they are.

The only way to ensure you, as a vegan, are getting adequate B12 is to take a supplement. B12 supplements are safe, cheap and effective. B12 tests are costly and time-consuming. And B12 deficiency is deadly. There's really no comparison there.

Another point: eating animal products does not mean automatically a healthy diet is followed, as well as a vegan can eat junk food.

Very true.

[brimstoneSalad]

And B12 deficiency is deadly. There's really no comparison there.

If you let it go on it is, although that seems unlikely in a developed country. Living with a B-12 deficiency and not seeing a doctor to be quickly diagnosed would be bizarre. Like living with a gunshot wound and not thinking to go to the hospital.

However, that said, while a deficiency is likely to be identified and treated long before death, there's no reason to put yourself through that, and living with it for even a few days or weeks could have long term effects from nerve damage. Not fun.