How much iodised salt do vegans need?

[brimstoneSalad]

Another thing I hadn't read before is that "stomach cancer is more common in Japan due to its high-salt diet"...

It isn't the salt itself.

This is because sodium increases the virulence of H. Pylori in the stomach lining, which causes ulcers and cancer. If you aren't infected then you're fine. If you are, then it would be smart to space out your sodium consumption and drink plenty of water with it... or maybe go to the doctor and get it taken care of.

[cornivore]

Ah, I thought it seemed to add up, since salt was said to be harsh enough to cause lesions in the other info I'd looked at in this topic. Maybe it facilitates stomach ulcers in the first place (along those lines).

[cornivore]

I took a quick look, and these articles would seem to be related as far as either affecting the epithelium, so perhaps they do this in succession:

• Salt is an oxidative stressor for gastric epithelial cells
• Inflammatory responses induced by Helicobacter pylori on the carcinogenesis of gastric epithelial GES‑1 cells

[cornivore]

Yeah, here's one that seems to follow this train of thought (as if I didn't make it up):

High-Salt Diet Induces Gastric Epithelial Hyperplasia and Parietal Cell Loss, and Enhances Helicobacter pylori Colonization in C57BL/6 Mice

"A high-salt diet in humans and experimental animals is known to cause gastritis, has been associated with a high risk of atrophic gastritis, and is considered a gastric tumor promoter...

Because Helicobacter pylori has been associated with a progression from gastritis to gastric cancer, we designed a study to determine whether excessive dietary NaCl would have an effect on colonization and gastritis in the mouse model of H. pylori infection...

We conclude that excessive NaCl intake enhances H. pylori colonization in mice and in humans and that chronic salt intake may exacerbate gastritis by increasing H. pylori colonization. Furthermore, elevated salt intake may potentiate H. pylori-associated carcinogenesis by inducing proliferation, pit cell hyperplasia, and glandular atrophy."

Maybe that's what you were saying (about potentiation), I was just thinking it could be that the bacteria tend to colonize only after salt causes damage there, so perhaps it is the salt itself to begin with. Like if the Japanese eat more salt, then it kind of causes more ulcers, etc.

[brimstoneSalad]

Maybe that's what you were saying (about potentiation), I was just thinking it could be that the bacteria tend to colonize only after salt causes damage there, so perhaps it is the salt itself to begin with. Like if the Japanese eat more salt, then it kind of causes more ulcers, etc.

You might be able to say the the salt is the brick that lets the bacteria in through the smashed window. Otherwise those cells heal very fast and without H. Pylori I don't think there's any association.

Interestingly, AFAIK it doesn't hold for KCl, so lite salt is the safer option. Of course, any amount of salt is fine as long as it's adequately diluted by fluids and other foods, it's the ratio that's the issue.

[cornivore]

It doesn't sound like they'd all heal fast if what the first article mentioned is a typical problem: "Salt/NaCl has been reported to induce necrosis in gastric mucosal cells". So if it's being used as a flavoring, it may not be diluted enough to prevent that. I've gotten away from using it for flavoring now. I just see it as a supplement for fluid balance with sodium and iodine, and will no longer be using a salt shaker or eating salted foods and sauces. There's more potassium than sodium or iodine in the plant foods, so I'll skip using potassium salt as a substitute or supplement also, I think it tends to be a diuretic that way, and doesn't taste wonderful either. Besides, my guess would be that any concentrated salt could be too harsh on the digestive tract (and I don't eat anything with seeds for that matter).

[cornivore]

One other thing I'll note, regardless of whether it is diluted, the elderly are said to have reduced renal function, so they should be more cautious about using salt(s) this way too, as suggested in the World Health Organization Formulary...

Oral rehydration

Replacement of fluid and electrolytes orally can be achieved by giving oral rehydration salts (solutions containing sodium, potassium, citrate, and glucose).

Precautions: renal impairment (Appendix 4).

Appendix 4: Renal impairment

Reduced renal function may cause problems with drug therapy...

Renal function (GFR, creatinine clearance) declines with age so that by the age of 80 it is half that in healthy young subjects. When prescribing for the elderly, assume at least a mild degree of renal impairment.

Medicines to be avoided or used with caution in renal impairment

Medicine | Degree of impairment | Comment

Potassium chloride | Moderate | Avoid routine use; high risk of hyperkalaemia

Sodium chloride | Severe | Avoid

Sodium hydrogen carbonate | Severe | Avoid; specialized role in some forms of renal disease

It looks like this is one example of where lite salt (potassium chloride) may not be the safer option.

[cornivore]

What do you know, there's always another obscure thing to look up about this topic (but I'm just trying to decide what kind of salt I'd prefer today, like if it's worth eating anticaking agents for the iodine). Yet another potential problem is that the iodine in salt may be neutralized by flouridated water, so maybe an iodine supplement is better (since there might be a conflict of interest between higher salt intake for adequate iodine): "While it is acknowledged that iodine deficiency increases the risk of fluoride induced toxicity on thyroid function, it has also been reported that dietary iodine absorption and incorporation is reduced by fluoride"...

What a fine mess, I was just wondering how likely iodine deficiency could become a problem, depending on how infrequently it's part of the diet, but that article mentions how iodine may be involved in other ways...

"In addition to the biological actions of iodine in regulating thyroid hormones, iodine has many additional functions, including anti-inflammatory, antioxidant and anti-microbial defence. Iodine deficiency has been reported to be associated with increased cancer risk including; breast, thyroid, and prostate cancer. Furthermore, iodine has been found to inhibit the carcinogenic process in breast and prostate cancer cell lines. These findings are consistent with results showing that incidence of prostate, endometrium, ovary and breast cancer is lower in populations with high iodine intake. Notably, the Republic of Ireland has the highest cancer incident in Europe and third highest in the world next to New Zealand and Australia. The majority of the population in all three countries are also provided with artificially fluoridated drinking water."

Other than similar articles referenced there, which also found iodine deficiency to be associated with flouridated water, another one mentions that lead in the flouridated water could be a factor too: "It is well known that fluoride, being a metabolic antagonist of iodine, also suppresses the hormonal function of the thyroid gland. In our experiment, both fluoride and lead caused a statistically insufficiently significant reduction in the thyrotropic hormone level, but under a combined exposure this effect grew stronger and reached statistical significance"...

Anyway, it seems like mixing iodized salt with water could be a problem, and not mixing salt with water could be a problem, so maybe it's better to separate the concerns between iodine and salt intake, or get iodine from more than one source (but not too much of it all together). Of course this would have to be an approximation, since it's kind of complicated. Right, nutrition is so absurd, I'd like to stop eating now, so I won't want to look anything else up.

[brimstoneSalad]

I don't think anticaking agents are going to be a problem unless you're *inhaling* them.

In terms of fluoride, water with added fluoride has very low levels because fluoride isn't added to water that has naturally high levels.
If you live in an area with naturally high levels (which can exceed added levels by many times) then it may make sense to eat a little extra iodine to make sure the fluoride isn't interfering with it if that really is a problem... it makes sense, since Fluoride and Iodine are chemically closely related. Or perhaps if you drink a large amount of green tea too, since it contains a large amount of fluoride, eating a little extra iodine would make sense.

The amount of iodized salt required for adequate levels is so small it would be really trivial to even double that and should not be expected to introduce any health risk. Multivitamins also contain it, if there's a concern.

Or perhaps if you drink something like orange juice in the morning, along with the soy milk in your cereal or whatever, rather than water, then that would be a good time for iodized salt in your tofu scramble without concern that the fluoride will interfere.

I really think the risk would only exist if your consumption of iodine is barely adequate and you have above average fluoride consumption due to a green tea habit and living in an area with naturally very high levels in the tap water.

You might be getting a little obsessive here. I'd say just eat the salt and enjoy it. It's not going to give you stomach cancer or renal failure unless you don't drink any water with it, and a little water isn't going to neutralize all the iodine due to the trace of fluoride added to it.

[cornivore]

I don't think anticaking agents are going to be a problem unless you're *inhaling* them.

That yellow prussiate of soda is a real winner though... "like all ferrocyanide salt solutions, addition of an acid can result in the production of hydrogen cyanide gas, which is toxic"... this doesn't quite sound like something I'd like to use in a vinaigrette.

As far as stomach problems go, you have to be very careful with sodium bicarbonate at least, looking at the warning on a box of baking soda: "STOMACH WARNING: TO AVOID SERIOUS INJURY, DO NOT TAKE UNTIL POWDER IS COMPLETELY DISSOLVED. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT NOT TO TAKE THIS PRODUCT WHEN OVERLY FULL FROM FOOD OR DRINK. Consult a doctor if severe stomach pain occurs after taking this product."

That's another one of those anticaking agents I've seen in iodized salt, by the way.

You might be getting a little obsessive here.

To me, it was about being comprehensive (and that's like calling the scientists obsessive for doing experiments, which I was merely reading, and including here for general information—you're welcome—you were about to gargle salt, weren't you)... But I've read enough to figure out that the studies may be endless, so that was enough of that (I'll just keep my intake to a minimum, unless I'm sweating or likely losing it some other way).

Lately I've figured out how to prepare food without salt (or spices), which tastes as good as anything else I've made, so it's just an ingredient of rehydration fluid or an isotonic supplement for me at this point. But there are enough things that can degrade the iodine in salt that I wouldn't count on it as the only source either (especially if I'm not using as much anymore). There's a little sodium in the nutrition information for pretty much every plant ingredient I use anyway (just no iodine there).