Chilean COVID-19 vaccine paradox

[brimstoneSalad]

Does it even sound plausible that COVID-19 would spread a lot if the primary way you could get it is by getting it from somebody who has symptoms?

Yes, because if somebody coughs indoors it can hang around for hours in the air.

If trying to understand the other side has changed your mind, or even just made you respect the other side more, you know you are being objective.

Incorrect, that's a very poor metric of objectivity. It can also mean you're gullible.

So what if it is caused by something in my head? It is real and I need to deal with it. Do you think drinking some alcohol before getting vaccinated to prevent that panic attack is a good idea?

If you believe strongly that it will work then it has a good chance of working.
The same is true for orange juice, urine, or any other liquid.

I don't think you will receive the injection if you're obviously drunk.

What is AAP and why is it to be trusted?

As to the question of whether something is or is not recommended?
What is wrong with you Teo?

[teo123]

Yes, because if somebody coughs indoors it can hang around for hours in the air.

For hours?! And aren't you basically safe from somebody as long as you are 2 meters far away from them? Droplets fall to some surface in seconds and the virus soon dies then (CDC admitted it is highly unlikely you will catch COVID by touching a contaminated surface, and that early recommendations about cleaning surfaces do not help.).

Incorrect, that's a very poor metric of objectivity. It can also mean you're gullible.

And what is the alternative? Being close-minded by definition makes you non-objective.

If you believe strongly that it will work then it has a good chance of working.

I do not believe it strongly, I am guessing. What do you think, would taking my mother's Diazepan help?

As to the question of whether something is or is not recommended?
What is wrong with you Teo?

Why would something have to be wrong with me? As far as I know, many scientists are concerned that vaccinating the very-low-risk population leads to more harmful variants of viruses emerging, in the same way preventative usage of antibiotics leads to more harmful bacteria emerging.

[teo123]

I came to know they started giving the Johnson&Johnson vaccination to people between 18 and 30 without proven comorbodities, so I applied and got vaccinated on Saturday. I have taken a half of Diazepam pill before that, but I am not sure it helped at all. I was shaking for full thirty minutes after the vaccination. At least this time I could control myself enough not to bite my tongue, which I could not when I received a vaccination last time (the tetanus vaccine). The doctor said he understood me, that pandemic destroys mental health, and that he fell unconscious after he got his vaccine a few months earlier.

Side-effects started the same day. Mostly fever, headache and shoulder pain. In Sunday, the fever got up to 38.1 degrees Celsius. Otherwise, it has been fluctuating between 36.9 and 37.8: now it is 36.9, and it was 37.4 a few hours ago. Today, five days after the vaccination, I also had some runny nose and a sore throat. On Monday evening, I also got some nausea, so I could not eat. Paracetamol does not seem to help a lot. I also tried taking some Rinolan to shut down my immune system, assuming the side effects come from the immune system rather than being psychosomatic in origin, but Rinolan appears to somehow make things even worse for me (as well as causing difficulty swallowing, a side effect that apparently the instructions do not warn about, and I have no idea how a drug that shuts down the immune system might cause that, but it seems to).

I think this is the last vaccination I will take in my life. I now think I made a mistake to get vaccinated against COVID-19. I mean, 21-year-olds like me mostly have literally no symptoms if they get COVID-19, and, those that do have symptoms, mostly have cold-like symptoms. Going through that panic attack and then through those horribly annoying side-effects that last for at least five days (if they stop tomorrow), just to prevent a cold-like disease which it is not certain I will even catch... I am quite sure it is not worth it. At the very least, for the side-effects of the vaccine, I feel like they are my fault for taking the vaccine in spite of all the warnings I have read on the Internet, whereas I would not feel like the symptoms of COVID were my fault.

[Jebus]

I came to know they started giving the Johnson&Johnson vaccination to people between 18 and 30 without proven comorbodities, so I applied and got vaccinated on Saturday. I have taken a half of Diazepam pill before that, but I am not sure it helped at all. I was shaking for full thirty minutes after the vaccination. At least this time I could control myself enough not to bite my tongue, which I could not when I received a vaccination last time (the tetanus vaccine). The doctor said he understood me, that pandemic destroys mental health, and that he fell unconscious after he got his vaccine a few months earlier.

Side-effects started the same day. Mostly fever, headache and shoulder pain. In Sunday, the fever got up to 38.1 degrees Celsius. Otherwise, it has been fluctuating between 36.9 and 37.8: now it is 36.9, and it was 37.4 a few hours ago. Today, five days after the vaccination, I also had some runny nose and a sore throat. On Monday evening, I also got some nausea, so I could not eat. Paracetamol does not seem to help a lot. I also tried taking some Rinolan to shut down my immune system, assuming the side effects come from the immune system rather than being psychosomatic in origin, but Rinolan appears to somehow make things even worse for me (as well as causing difficulty swallowing, a side effect that apparently the instructions do not warn about, and I have no idea how a drug that shuts down the immune system might cause that, but it seems to).

I think this is the last vaccination I will take in my life. I now think I made a mistake to get vaccinated against COVID-19. I mean, 21-year-olds like me mostly have literally no symptoms if they get COVID-19, and, those that do have symptoms, mostly have cold-like symptoms. Going through that panic attack and then through those horribly annoying side-effects that last for at least five days (if they stop tomorrow), just to prevent a cold-like disease which it is not certain I will even catch... I am quite sure it is not worth it. At the very least, for the side-effects of the vaccine, I feel like they are my fault for taking the vaccine in spite of all the warnings I have read on the Internet, whereas I would not feel like the symptoms of COVID were my fault.

The fact that you felt well enough to go out and drink beer the day after your shot makes me suspect you have Munchhausen's. However, there are two more possibilities:

1. You have hypochondria.

2. You had real vaccine side effects. I also had a fever after my jab, although it only lasted a day. You don't need all those medications. Just stop being a wimp and ride it out. Lots of people get a fever without whining about it like it's the end of the world.

[Red]

At least this time I could control myself enough not to bite my tongue, which I could not when I received a vaccination last time (the tetanus vaccine). The doctor said he understood me, that pandemic destroys mental health, and that he fell unconscious after he got his vaccine a few months earlier.

So are all Croatians just complete pussies or?

My guess is that since the scientific literacy there is so shit there's distrust of the vaccines, so there's a nocebo effect at play. Or, and I think the more likely answer, you're all a bunch of wusses.

[thebestofenergy]

@teo123 , nobody cares that you got some nausea and a light fever after you got the vaccine. Seriously, it does not matter at all.
You're talking as if you never had a flu before in your life.
I had a fever and side effects too, as did everybody I know after taking the vaccine.

The fact that you tried to 'shut down' your immune system to stop side effects, shows how much of a poor judgement you have: having a heightened immune system is better when taking the vaccine and building your immunization to the disease, as your body reacts more to it because of the stronger immune response and creates more antibodies.

The fact that you're making such a big deal about such small side effects is indicative of how spoiled you are--that, and/or the bias you have against vaccines just means you dishonestly exaggerate negative things to yourself and others to find something against vaccines.

I mean, you're literally complaining on a forum about having a runny nose and a sore throat, and then having a bit of nausea and not eating a dinner.
????
Do you read the stuff you write in an objectively critical way at all?

The fact that you think those cold-like symptoms you had (light fever, nausea, runny nose) were 'horribly annoying', means you probably wouldn't survive something like COVID-19 and its actually debilitating symptoms, so be thankful you got the vaccine and stop crying for something lighter than a flu.

[teo123]

The fact that you felt well enough to go out and drink beer the day after your shot makes me suspect you have Munchhausen's.

Fever of 38.1 degrees Celsius does not stop you from going out and drinking beer, especially if you think positively that it will be over in a few hours.
And, who knows, maybe the nausea because of which I could not eat dinner came from the alcohol. Maybe the headache was as well.

1. You have hypochondria.

2. You had real vaccine side effects. I also had a fever after my jab, although it only lasted a day. You don't need all those medications. Just stop being a wimp and ride it out. Lots of people get a fever without whining about it like it's the end of the world.

It is probably neither of those things. I have just been to the doctor, and she diagnozed me a bacterial throat infection and prescribed me some antibiotics.

there's a nocebo effect at play

Arguably, that played a big role.

You're talking as if you never had a flu before in your life.

Well, no, I have never had a flu. My mother once had. She says it was horrible, so she once got vaccinated against the flu. However, she now firmly believes flu vaccination damages the immune system against other viruses, because she was sick constantly for months after taking that flu vaccination.

I had a fever and side effects too, as did everybody I know after taking the vaccine.

I thought studies show only 10%-20% of people have fever after COVID vaccination. Which makes some sense considering that only 30% of people with COVID have fever, and it cannot be a higher percentage than that. Assuming the data is not fake, of course.

[thebestofenergy]

You're talking as if you never had a flu before in your life.

Well, no, I have never had a flu. My mother once had. She says it was horrible, so she once got vaccinated against the flu. However, she now firmly believes flu vaccination damages the immune system against other viruses, because she was sick constantly for months after taking that flu vaccination.

You quoted Red, but I think you meant to quote me.

The fact that you never had a flu in your life is really odd. Maybe you don't remember, and you had a few when you were very young.
A flu really isn't that bad, and it's usually worse than the symptoms you've gotten (fever 39+ celsius, puking, diarrhea, headache, pain all over your body, etc.)
But it goes away after a few days, and then it's over with.

COVID-19 symptoms are much, much worse. It lasts for weeks, and it's seriously debilitating, you can't even breathe properly. Imagine struggling to breathe 24/7.

Your mother is definitely wrong about the flu vaccine damaging the immune system, it does literally the opposite. Anecdotal episodes should not be considered by themselves to be compelling evidence. There might have been something else at play that she didn't know.
But flu shots are very light and given to old and fragile people too, and they can deal with it very well. Unless you know you're allergic to something in the shot, there's no reason not to take them.

I had a fever and side effects too, as did everybody I know after taking the vaccine.

I thought studies show only 10%-20% of people have fever after COVID vaccination. Which makes some sense considering that only 30% of people with COVID have fever, and it cannot be a higher percentage than that. Assuming the data is not fake, of course.

I'm not claiming 100% of the people get fever, just that all the people I know that got the vaccine got fever (at least a light fever), and that it's really not a big deal.
Getting fever is a GOOD sign, because it means your body is reacting properly to the vaccination and having a stronger response, and stronger response means better antibodies built. You WANT to have a fever and a strong immune response to the vaccine, it's a very small sacrifice for much better immunity against something much worse.
Getting fever after the vaccine is not an uncommon side effect, and you should not worry about it - instead, you should be glad your immune system is reacting well.

Think about it this way: if you're feeling these side effects with the vaccine, can you imagine how brutal the real deal would have been on you?

[teo123]

COVID-19 symptoms are much, much worse. It lasts for weeks, and it's seriously debilitating, you can't even breathe properly. Imagine struggling to breathe 24/7.

Well, the only person I know that had COVID-19 and struggled breathing is Mirta, and she is over 60 years old.
Younger people do not have such problems if they get COVID-19. Hrvoje, who is my peer, had no symptoms other than weakened sense of smell for a few weeks. Tin, who is 1 year younger than me, had a fever of 38.5 degrees Celsius for a few days. His father had fever higher than 39 degrees Celsius, but he is around 50 years old.
Where are you getting your data from?

[thebestofenergy]

COVID-19 symptoms are much, much worse. It lasts for weeks, and it's seriously debilitating, you can't even breathe properly. Imagine struggling to breathe 24/7.

Well, the only person I know that had COVID-19 and struggled breathing is Mirta, and she is over 60 years old.

'Well, the only person I know got cancer from smoking all his life is a random guy I know, and he is over 60 years old.'

Teo, I'm not talking about the people you know. I'm talking about symptoms on average.

Younger people do not have such problems if they get COVID-19.

And yet, look at how many 'horribly annoying' problems you got with your vaccine.
There are plenty of young people (less, of course, but still many) that go to the ICU and/or end up struggling a lot, having long-term side effects too, including serious breathing problems - so your claim that young people do not have these problems is incorrect, as there are countless examples of them.
I'm sure you're at least not stupid enough to think that vaccine side effects would be equal to or be stronger than the real deal.
You made a long post complaining about the vaccine side effects, so, again, imagine if you actually got COVID and had them much worse.
Considering how unprepared and ill-equipped your immune system was to flu-like symptoms, it's not unthinkable that you would have had a really, actually horrible experience with COVID.

But the main problem would be if you passed to it to others, you're selfish by only thinking of yourself. Your 'horribly annoying' side effects protect you from much, much worse symptoms of the real thing, and protect others that come in contact with you from possible death.

Where are you getting your data from?

Scientific consensus on what the symptoms are, and various studies.

I should ask you the same. Only the people you know? Anecdotal 'data' is pointless to display.