Philosophical Vegan Forum

sykkelmannen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:04 am This sounds good in theory but it's a mess in real life. Greywater isn't clean water anymore. You'd be surprised to see how dirty the buckets get. Greywater from the washing machine starts to smell rather bad in about a day or two

You size your system for your needs; water should all be used in a day or two, with excess watering plants. New water flowing in doesn't fully replace it, but it should replace most of it and very importantly it's not stagnant (which is why your buckets get so stinky), and if you wanted full replacement you could always use a couple containers and a siphon system.

sykkelmannen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:04 amTimewise, this takes probably less than five minutes daily to manipulate the buckets. Sometimes you can see the beauty in low-tech. I certainly can.

Maybe, but how much longer do your showers take when you're stepping around buckets? And might that even result in more water use? And what about tripping? What about company coming over and not knowing how to use them when a built in greywater system is learning curve free?
Even if just five minutes, five minute a day also adds up. In a week that's nearly an hour.

sykkelmannen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:04 amIf you want to save time, quit your job

Sure, but earning money has value too, including charitable value if you give well.
This is hundreds of dollars a year in opportunity cost.

sykkelmannen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:04 amI do have the time on my hands. What other environment-saving measures would you suggest?

Teaching others is a good way to go, and in that case practical measures that more people would be more likely to adopt would probably serve best.

sykkelmannen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:04 amI've had the pleasure to rest in some amazing, odorfree outhouses.

I'm using apple scented air freshener in my empty applesauce jars, so peeing in them is like redneck aromatherapy.

sykkelmannen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:04 amTimewise, this takes probably less than five minutes daily to manipulate the buckets. Sometimes you can see the beauty in low-tech. I certainly can.

brimstoneSalad wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:11 amWhat about company coming over and not knowing how to use them?

This is a great opportunity to teach others what simple measures they can take to save immense amounts of water ANYWHERE they are, and I do it on a regular basis.

sykkelmannen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:04 amIf you want to save time, quit your job

brimstoneSalad wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:11 amSure, but earning money has value too, including charitable value if you give well.
This is hundreds of dollars a year in opportunity cost.

Disagree. This isn't free money. It's the money exchanged for your freedom. Which you've sold. To buy all sorts of shit you don't need. Just to realize you don't have any time left to even think.
The opportunity here is freedom vs slavery. To submit to slavery in order to "give well" is a poor choice.

sykkelmannen wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:59 pm Disagree. This isn't free money. It's the money exchanged for your freedom. Which you've sold. To buy all sorts of shit you don't need.

Why would you buy shit you don't need when you have the option of giving it to an effective charity?

Not working for money (when you have that choice) could be seen as a very selfish action.

sykkelmannen wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:59 pm This is a great opportunity to teach others what simple measures they can take to save immense amounts of water ANYWHERE they are, and I do it on a regular basis.

I have a feeling they may be polite to your face and say how that's so great that you're doing that, but privately think you're kind of crazy.
Of course I could be wrong, but that's how the people I know react to that kind of thing.

I think they could end up categorizing that stuff with veganism, and seeing all the extremes as kind of discrediting each other in terms of doability.

Whereas a grey water system that they could just pay a plumber a couple hundred dollars to install, then set it and forget it? Totally something people would both do and that could open the door to inspire them to do more rather than putting up a wall.

@Jebus point above is on the money regarding... money.

Jebus wrote: ↑Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:43 am Not working for money (when you have that choice) could be seen as a very selfish action.

Are you saying you work for money just to give it away? Are you saying it's selfish to live in a self-sustainable fashion, taking money out of the equation? Is it even a bad thing, to be selfish? Now that I think about it, the slaves were actually pretty selfish brats to demand rights and freedom when they had two or three square meals, a shelter and honest work to do

What leads you to believe that an "effective charity" can use your money better than you? Aren't there poor people in your neighborhood that could use your help? Who exactly is it you want to help by means of donating to a "charity"?

@brimstoneSalad regarding that ingenious greywater system - how come you don't have it yet?

sykkelmannen wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:29 am Are you saying you work for money just to give it away?

Charity is not the only reason I work for money.

sykkelmannen wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:29 amAre you saying it's selfish to live in a self-sustainable fashion, taking money out of the equation?

There is some selfishness involved in nearly every act. Selfishness runs along a continuum. Instead of thinking of an action as selfish or not selfish, try to think of it as more or less selfish compared to an alternate choice.

sykkelmannen wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:29 am Is it even a bad thing, to be selfish?

According to me (and most people I consider decent) yes. According to Ayn Rand, no.

sykkelmannen wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:29 amNow that I think about it, the slaves were actually pretty selfish brats to demand rights and freedom when they had two or three square meals, a shelter and honest work to do

This is Kanye West style ranting. Are you sure you don't want to put a bit more thought into something you post on a forum where it may be read by hundreds of people?

sykkelmannen wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:29 amWhat leads you to believe that an "effective charity" can use your money better than you? Aren't there poor people in your neighborhood that could use your help? Who exactly is it you want to help by means of donating to a "charity"?

This is an excellent question. I think a big problem in the world is that too many people choose to make charitable decisions that are too close to home, i.e. they will give to a struggling local school when the same amount of money could be used to save thousands against malaria in Africa, or they will choose to donate to breast cancer research after a family member is diagnosed with such, rather than researching where the money can have the most impact.

Of course, there are times when giving locally is the most effective way of giving but few people bother to do the research to find out. When I lived in wealthy countries I donated almost exclusively to outside charities. However, now that I live in a developing country I tend to spend most of my charity money locally.

We have had quite a few discussions on this forum about effective altruism. I suggest you read through those.

sykkelmannen wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:29 am @brimstoneSalad regarding that ingenious greywater system - how come you don't have it yet?

Who said anything about what I do or don't have?

If you're not in the process/saving up/etc. there are some good reasons not to set one up:

1. You live with many roommates who won't let you do it.
2. You live in a rented apartment where doing anything with the plumbing is against the terms of the lease (in which case your bucket trick is all you can do without getting evicted)
3. You move too frequently to be able to set up and use something like that.

In all of these cases, the buckets might still work.
But if you own, or you're renting long term and your landlord doesn't care about some minor reversible plumbing work, and you don't have five roommates who complain when you do anything (or something like that), then it might work out.

Watering the grass is still working out, as such. It's all green as ever, even where I've repeatedly soaked it with pee. It looks like a lot more moss and mushrooms have sprouted up around the yard, than in seasons past. I guess urine + water is a great fertilizer for any kind of ground cover. "Go" green!

By the way, it looks like there are special funnels made for women to pee in bottles, etc. How's that for a green thumb?

Or the Toilet Hat / Specimen Collection method might work for anyone.



Coincidentally there's a story about public planter urinals . . .