Vaccines, Flu Shots, and eggs
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miniboes
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Re: Vaccines, Flu Shots, and eggs
Hmm. How about the lab-grown meat stuff? Can't we do something similar to solve this problem? Just coming up with random hypotheses.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Vaccines, Flu Shots, and eggs
Volenta,
Yeah, it's quite the dilemma. Personally, I'm not sure if I should get flu shots or not.
Right now, I'm thinking I just get shots for the more serious stuff. Like H1N1, and seasonal flu I skip. I don't think the egg is currently worth it, in terms of human suffering and risk, for more common cold.
It's hard to really get hard data on these things, of course, since it's difficult to compare the cases.
I think once we have in-vitro tissue growth commercially viable at that level, the same process should be able to grow cell fodder for viruses.
Although, there are still a few challenges. I think one of the biggest right now is growth medium.
Currently, I believe we use human plasma and other animal derived substances to grow stem cell cultures (although I could be wrong).
Yeah, it's quite the dilemma. Personally, I'm not sure if I should get flu shots or not.
Right now, I'm thinking I just get shots for the more serious stuff. Like H1N1, and seasonal flu I skip. I don't think the egg is currently worth it, in terms of human suffering and risk, for more common cold.
It's hard to really get hard data on these things, of course, since it's difficult to compare the cases.
Yes, that would work.miniboes wrote:Hmm. How about the lab-grown meat stuff? Can't we do something similar to solve this problem? Just coming up with random hypotheses.
I think once we have in-vitro tissue growth commercially viable at that level, the same process should be able to grow cell fodder for viruses.
Although, there are still a few challenges. I think one of the biggest right now is growth medium.
Currently, I believe we use human plasma and other animal derived substances to grow stem cell cultures (although I could be wrong).
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Richard R. Barron
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Re: Vaccines, Flu Shots, and eggs
This is a surprisingly dismissive statement about a very serious illness. I don't know if you've ever had influenza, but unlike "a few days of sniffles" it can be debilitating and dangerous.brimstoneSalad wrote: What about flu shots, that save most people a few days of sniffles?
Here's some good advice about influenza...
http://www.health.harvard.edu/flu-resou ... -myths.htm
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Vaccines, Flu Shots, and eggs
I said most people; that is, most healthy adults in the low risk group.
It's unpleasant for a few days, but it is not life threatening for most people. Maybe it's less unpleasant for vegans.
Assuming it kills 35,000 people a year in the U.S., and 5-20% of the population get the flu each year (I've had it a few times; I've probably caught it more than most people, because I travel more and get exposed to strains I have no resistance to).
As a death toll, that's 0.01% of the population at worst, which is at very most 1 in every 500 people who catch it.
More people than die will go to the hospital for it (0.06%), and in terms of medical resources, that is meaningful, but both deaths and hospitalizations are mostly in the high-risk group (which should certainly be vaccinated, which reduces complications by something like 75%); something like 90% of the victims being the elderly, who have compromised immune systems, most of the rest being infants/very young children, and people with chronic respiratory issues.
Both those high risk individuals, and health care workers who are exposed to high risk individuals should be vaccinated, but the question is: should everybody else also be vaccinated too?
It's a cost benefit evaluation.
For most people (those not in the high risk group), is a 20% (at most) chance of a few days of discomfort worth guaranteed suffering for at least 24 hours for a chicken locked up in a battery cage to produce the egg (not even considering the shared burden for the eventual death of the chicken, and the male chicks ground up alive)?
I can say I'd rather have the flu than be locked in a battery cage for 24 hours, unable to walk or turn around.
And because I wouldn't want to bear such a torment, I wouldn't want to inflict it upon a chicken for my sake.
So, what I'm worried about is whether my not getting vaccinated could harm others.
What are the real chances of my catching the flu and then spreading it to somebody else who has serious complications or dies?
How does that weigh against the suffering of chickens in egg production for all of the shots I consume?
Anyway, GOOD NEWS!
I just found this reading some CDC info:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/ ... accine.htm
New vaccine made from insect cell line! (no insects are harmed as far as I can tell, it's just a cell line; I don't know what the growth medium is, but it sounds like it's constructed from scratch and not any kind of biological serum)
Just FDA approved last year, it seems it's starting to become available.
So, look for Flublok!
And thank you, fall armyworm, for your generous contribution of a viable lab grown cell line for culturing flu virus!
Please post here to let me know if you can find and get a Flublok shot; we should support this vaccine production method. I'm going to look for it, although it might not be very widely available yet.
It's unpleasant for a few days, but it is not life threatening for most people. Maybe it's less unpleasant for vegans.
Assuming it kills 35,000 people a year in the U.S., and 5-20% of the population get the flu each year (I've had it a few times; I've probably caught it more than most people, because I travel more and get exposed to strains I have no resistance to).
As a death toll, that's 0.01% of the population at worst, which is at very most 1 in every 500 people who catch it.
More people than die will go to the hospital for it (0.06%), and in terms of medical resources, that is meaningful, but both deaths and hospitalizations are mostly in the high-risk group (which should certainly be vaccinated, which reduces complications by something like 75%); something like 90% of the victims being the elderly, who have compromised immune systems, most of the rest being infants/very young children, and people with chronic respiratory issues.
Both those high risk individuals, and health care workers who are exposed to high risk individuals should be vaccinated, but the question is: should everybody else also be vaccinated too?
It's a cost benefit evaluation.
For most people (those not in the high risk group), is a 20% (at most) chance of a few days of discomfort worth guaranteed suffering for at least 24 hours for a chicken locked up in a battery cage to produce the egg (not even considering the shared burden for the eventual death of the chicken, and the male chicks ground up alive)?
I can say I'd rather have the flu than be locked in a battery cage for 24 hours, unable to walk or turn around.
And because I wouldn't want to bear such a torment, I wouldn't want to inflict it upon a chicken for my sake.
So, what I'm worried about is whether my not getting vaccinated could harm others.
What are the real chances of my catching the flu and then spreading it to somebody else who has serious complications or dies?
How does that weigh against the suffering of chickens in egg production for all of the shots I consume?
Anyway, GOOD NEWS!
I just found this reading some CDC info:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/ ... accine.htm
New vaccine made from insect cell line! (no insects are harmed as far as I can tell, it's just a cell line; I don't know what the growth medium is, but it sounds like it's constructed from scratch and not any kind of biological serum)
Just FDA approved last year, it seems it's starting to become available.
So, look for Flublok!
And thank you, fall armyworm, for your generous contribution of a viable lab grown cell line for culturing flu virus!
Please post here to let me know if you can find and get a Flublok shot; we should support this vaccine production method. I'm going to look for it, although it might not be very widely available yet.