Philosophical Vegan Forum

Most people are just not swayed by sound logic and strong arguments though. I think some people just won´t become effective altruists, ever. They will say things like "ah, but we already need to support local charities" or "ah, but those countries have corrupt governments that steal all the money" or "look, I have one or two charities I just know and support" or whatever. To some extent, you can´t win these arguments because they are just throwing up false arguments to decide their true reasoning.

But really their true reason for not become an effective altruist might be
"I am selfish, and I´ll donate just a tiny amount to ease my conscience and no more"
or
"none of my friends or family do this, and I decide how to live in life by looking at others, and copying them".
or even
"I am very slightly racist in my subconscious and this is why I instinctively avoid international charities"

Because they will never admit these true reasons, or even realize them themself, you´re not going to get very far.

But many of these people will give $5 to a neighbour or friend or niece doing a sponsored such and such. But anyway, maybe the fundraising isn´t right for you.

Not that I´m saying that we shouldn´t try to persuade people to become effective altruists. 10%-50% of the people you speak to may make changes as a result (even if it´s 1% it´s worth it), but 50%-90% just never will until the ideas becoming more popular.

Jamie in Chile wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:33 pm Most people are just not swayed by sound logic and strong arguments though.

I don't think that's really the case, but even granting that, I was more referring to people who could be won over in the first place.

Jamie in Chile wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:33 pm I think some people just won´t become effective altruists, ever.

Well, how are you defining 'effective altruist'? Is it someone who donates all of their disposable income? Or is it someone who just donates 10%?

They don't have to donate all the time, or even a percentage of their income to be considered effective altruists in my book. Making a $50 monthly donation to an effective charity already goes a long way, and I don't think it'd be terribly difficult to convince many people to make such a sacrifice. Maybe not Objectivists, but they don't listen to logic anyway.

Jamie in Chile wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:33 pmThey will say things like "ah, but we already need to support local charities" or "ah, but those countries have corrupt governments that steal all the money" or "look, I have one or two charities I just know and support" or whatever. To some extent, you can´t win these arguments because they are just throwing up false arguments to decide their true reasoning.

Have you tried explaining why these arguments aren't valid?

Maybe you can try using a more emotional argument if the logical ones don't work? I can understand being wary of using that though.

Jamie in Chile wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:33 pmBut really their true reason for not become an effective altruist might be
"I am selfish, and I´ll donate just a tiny amount to ease my conscience and no more"
or
"none of my friends or family do this, and I decide how to live in life by looking at others, and copying them".
or even
"I am very slightly racist in my subconscious and this is why I instinctively avoid international charities"

I won't deny these sentiments probably make up for a pretty big part of the population, but I think a lot of people can convince others.

Jamie in Chile wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:33 pmBecause they will never admit these true reasons, or even realize them themself, you´re not going to get very far.

But many of these people will give $5 to a neighbour or friend or niece doing a sponsored such and such. But anyway, maybe the fundraising isn´t right for you.

Not that I´m saying that we shouldn´t try to persuade people to become effective altruists. 10%-50% of the people you speak to may make changes as a result (even if it´s 1% it´s worth it), but 50%-90% just never will until the ideas becoming more popular.

10% of the population contributing a lot is really all you need to make a difference.

OK fair enough, some good points there, effective altruism is about using reason and evidence to make donations that have a bigger positive effect per $ in saving lives. I do see the idea of giving a higher % to charity as part of that. Whether that's 10% or 50% but not under 1%.

$50 a month is a very good donation I think for most people.

Jamie in Chile wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:13 am OK fair enough, some good points there, effective altruism is about using reason and evidence to make donations that have a bigger positive effect per $ in saving lives. I do see the idea of giving a higher % to charity as part of that. Whether that's 10% or 50% but not under 1%.

$50 a month is a very good donation I think for most people.

Yeah as I said we have to show people how easy it is, and on top of that we should give them updates on the people they are helping (not in general, I mean the specific individuals that are benefiting from the contributions). I think they'd be more likely to stick with keeping a monthly donation when they see the impact it has.