Philosophical Vegan Forum

I haven't found a vegan diet hard, at least cooking for myself. I've found that it's significantly more difficult going to a restaurant.

I'm curious if people who struggle weren't really exposed to healthy food as a kid. The protein+carb+veg plating a lot of kids had for dinner doesn't put veg in a good light, especially for the poor souls who only got boiled ones. Not learning enough about how to cook at a young age I would also expect to have an influence.

I'm curious how those who grew up in those scenarios felt about going vegan, and how difficult it was for them to learn to cook in a new way.

oakleyannie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:31 pm I've found that it's significantly more difficult going to a restaurant.

That's why I try to avoid going to restaurants with friends. When I do I usually just order baked potatoes and bread.

oakleyannie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:31 pmI'm curious if people who struggle weren't really exposed to healthy food as a kid. The protein+carb+veg plating a lot of kids had for dinner doesn't put veg in a good light, especially for the poor souls who only got boiled ones. Not learning enough about how to cook at a young age I would also expect to have an influence.

There are tasty ways of getting people to eat more greens and veggies, such as mixing it up with another food or putting it in a smoothie. You're right in that it's an issue about how people grew up eating them.

oakleyannie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:31 pmI'm curious how those who grew up in those scenarios felt about going vegan, and how difficult it was for them to learn to cook in a new way.

Cooking isn't hard even on a vegan diet; Beans are quick to heat in the microwave, tofurky can be put on sandwiches, sometimes I just eat things straight like yams.

Some things may take a bit of practice such as cooking mushrooms, but overall it isn't hard. Most people need to learn how to cook their own food.

It is considerably more easy today due to the availability of proper information. Scientific validation which includes many myths having been debunked by studies in the last decades, like the myth of complete proteins for instance, has also been very helpful. Now it's more a matter of doing some research and changing habits, which can still be difficult for some.

boitatá wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:37 am It is considerably more easy today due to the availability of proper information. Scientific validation which includes many myths having been debunked by studies in the last decades, like the myth of complete proteins for instance, has also been very helpful. Now it's more a matter of doing some research and changing habits, which can still be difficult for some.

The problem is a lot of pseudoscientific journalism still runs amok, especially with health (and environment to a lesser extent too) with people suggesting that saturated fats aren't bad for you.

People should be skeptical of this type of thing, but when it comes to wanting to justify an action that can't be justified, people will cling to anything.

Red wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:52 am

boitatá wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:37 am It is considerably more easy today due to the availability of proper information. Scientific validation which includes many myths having been debunked by studies in the last decades, like the myth of complete proteins for instance, has also been very helpful. Now it's more a matter of doing some research and changing habits, which can still be difficult for some.

The problem is a lot of pseudoscientific journalism still runs amok, especially with health (and environment to a lesser extent too) with people suggesting that saturated fats aren't bad for you.

People should be skeptical of this type of thing, but when it comes to wanting to justify an action that can't be justified, people will cling to anything.

Unfortunately not just journalism, once heard a doctor in a lecture say people need animal fat otherwise they can get some bowel disease, I think it's Crohn's disease he mentioned, and then he suggested consuming butter which is something that runs against personal experience. And then there all the pseudo scientific theories like Blood Type diet and the paleo diets and the likes.

Fat checks are still necessary, but not necessarily becoming orphan of doctor and nutritionist once one goes veg is definitely a big improvement.

boitatá wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:47 am Unfortunately not just journalism, once heard a doctor in a lecture say people need animal fat otherwise they can get some bowel disease, I think it's Crohn's disease he mentioned, and then he suggested consuming butter which is something that runs against personal experience. And then there all the pseudo scientific theories like Blood Type diet and the paleo diets and the likes.

Fat checks are still necessary, but not necessarily becoming orphan of doctor and nutritionist once one goes veg is definitely a big improvement.

Doctors have zero idea what they're talking about when it comes to nutrition, which wouldn't be a problem in and of itself, but the problem is they think they're an authority when it comes to nutrition and dispense bad advice to their patients.

My friend's doctor told him the soy estrogen BS, and the best proteins you need are animal and milk proteins. Also when my mom told my doctor that I'm a vegan (for my annual checkup) he said "I'm sorry for that" but I'm not sure if he was joking. He said my bloodwork was some of the best he's ever seen so idk

Red wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:46 am

boitatá wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:47 am Unfortunately not just journalism, once heard a doctor in a lecture say people need animal fat otherwise they can get some bowel disease, I think it's Crohn's disease he mentioned, and then he suggested consuming butter which is something that runs against personal experience. And then there all the pseudo scientific theories like Blood Type diet and the paleo diets and the likes.

Fat checks are still necessary, but not necessarily becoming orphan of doctor and nutritionist once one goes veg is definitely a big improvement.

Doctors have zero idea what they're talking about when it comes to nutrition, which wouldn't be a problem in and of itself, but the problem is they think they're an authority when it comes to nutrition and dispense bad advice to their patients.

My friend's doctor told him the soy estrogen BS, and the best proteins you need are animal and milk proteins. Also when my mom told my doctor that I'm a vegan (for my annual checkup) he said "I'm sorry for that" but I'm not sure if he was joking. He said my bloodwork was some of the best he's ever seen so idk

I think what you mention at the end might in the long run win doctors to veganism, i.e. the fact that people on a strict vegetarian, whole grains and legumes, diet are usually healthy and do well in blood and also other tests.

The thing is, not all vegans eat a decent diet. A lot of vegans are on junk food diets, and if I'm not mistaken a lot of vegans that doctors see are new vegans who aren't quite sure what to eat and are thus malnourished.

And these days there is no reason for that. Books written by plant based doctors explaining how and why to eat are available and quite affordable and there are plenty of tutorial on the issue in YouTube. On top of that the diets they suggest are quite affordable too and there's no longer the idea that people need to be consuming exotic oriental products that are relatively recent to the Western diet and can be more expensive; people can rely solely on foods that have been used here for centuries.

Maybe one can say that a strict vegetarian diet is not hard but tricky, that one needs to look at the details like adding salt to the food, a good source of omega 3 like flax-seeds and not forgetting B12 supplements. There are also things that one can do to optimize the diet and nutrient absorption and which can be found in the above mentioned books and tutorials.

Finally it also remains to be seen how much worse these vegans on wrong diets are doing from their meat eating counterparts, because if the vegan coughs (and it might just be that he choked) he's headed for tuberculosis while the other can have all kinds of serious problems that it's just natural.

And just to illustrate the point above and the level of nonsense these things can reach: once knew two persons one vegetarian, or trying to become, and the other not, and they were both doing a similar mistake, i.e. they spent most of the day eating cookies and the first was avoiding legumes, probably because the cookies were already causing enough gas, the other was skipping meals with fear of excessive calories. Of course the vegetarian one was facing enormous family pressure because among other things was avoiding sugar and thus could not participate in many of the traditional sweets that are eaten in festivities. The person eventually run into trouble, don't know exactly in what it translated though, and went to a nutritionist. The problem "obviously" was not in the way the person was eating but in vegetarianism and to make it worse the nutritionist warned the person against whole grains and instilled great fear about consuming them. The other person don't know if she ever ran into trouble but if she did one would probably never know because it would hardly be linked to the diet.