Philosophical Vegan Forum

Red wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:45 pmDo you think it'd be best to make it one long video? Some people may get bored and click off. It might be best to split this into several parts.

Aye I'm just going to go for it all in one video, because it's all so interconnected for me, so want to be able to say this leads on from this and will bring this up again later like a lecture or research document people can come back to and skip around. But will definitely think about re-working it into lots of shorter videos also.

I've edited the first section after my discussion with Footsoldier:

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1a. How to explain what veganism is

I define veganism as simply “an animal products boycott.”

I make the point of saying it’s one campaign tactic among many, aimed primarily at achieving the end of animal agriculture.

And that personally I see it as being grounded in the animal rights movement, seeking legal habitat rights for animals to live without being subjected to human cruelty. In a similar way to how the act of boycotting South African products or the act of boycotting the Montgomery bus company was grounded in the civil rights movement.

Other boycotts didn’t have a specific name for the behavioural identity one took on when boycotting, the principle for why they boycotted was contained in what it meant to be part of a larger movement e.g. being civil rights advocate. So I would encourage most vegans to think of themselves as animal rights advocates fighiting for the legal protection of animals, though one could also call themself an animal liberation advocate focusing on non-human animals desire to be free to express their capabilities in the wild.

As for why someone would arrive at the ethical conclusion to boycott, it could be a million ways, but the 3 main ethical schools of thought you can draw from are consequentialism, virtue ethics and deontology. I would just be prepared to tailor your arguments to the person you’re standing in front of, as we’ll discuss later in the video. But here are a few examples:

Hedonistic Utilitarianism: The principle of not breeding sentient life into the world where you know you will cause more suffering on a global calculus than happiness. Examples: climate change, stress and pain in slaughterhouse than longer happy life in wild with low rates of predation, stress to slaughterhouse workers who are more likely to abuse their family). . .

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Red wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:45 pmOverall from what I've skimmed this seems like a great script! There may be a few things in need of clarification, I'll give a more thorough read later.

Much appreciated, here's links to it on the wiki again and now in a google doc:

Wiki: Click here
Google Doc: Click here

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Differing language approaches to advocating/explaining veganism

Vegan advocate (potentially maximalist behavioural commitment & sectarian philosophy)

Vegan Society, etc.

Animal rights advocate (legal principle), then vegan campaign tactic (minimal behavioural commitment & non-sectarian philosophy)

Work in progress video lecture - How to simply explain what veganism is & argue for it

Total liberation advocate (principle), then anti-speciesist advocate (issue), then vegan advocate (minimal behaviour commitment & non-sectarian philosophy)

Video essay – A three tier model for animal advocacy by Jonathan Dickstein

Video lecture - Veganism: practice, identity or folly? By Jonathan Dickstein

Video lecture - Rethinking Veganism by Johnathan Dickstein & Friend

Article - Rethink Your Understanding of Veganism

Article - the ism of veganism

Total liberation (principle), then anti-speciesism (issue), then veganism & concern for wild animal suffering (principle & behaviour):

Article - Animal advocates should focus on anti-speciesism, not veganism by magnus vinding (plant based news)

Anti-natalism advocate (sectarian philosophy & behaviour), then veganism (sectarian philosophy & behaviour)

Benetar, Imendham, etc.

Reducitarian acvocate (behavioural commitment), then plant based advocate (behavioural commitment to be at least 99% abstaining, mistaken for vegan)

Article - Vegans, We Gotta Break Through This 100% Perfect Sh*t

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1d. Good Definitions

So, In summary:

What is veganism?

1. An animal products boycott.

(Minimal behavioural commitment, very little confusion about what it entails, it being a protest allows for other priorities to override like medicine, but either way it’s still a strong commitment to a commercial boycott. The reason the vegan society was created and simply the colloquial understanding of a vegan as 'a person who does not eat or use animal products', but leaving room for freeganism.

And...

2. A way of living which seeks to exclude all use of animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

(Includes other boycott behaviour like avoiding animals in entertainment, but vague about whether it entails a weaker or stronger commitment to the act of boycotting itself. Potentially we could move to solely this one when we can afford to give more or less equal focus to campaigning against other industries).

What is Animal Rights?

The philosophy which says animals should be granted collective legal rights to find refuge in dense wildlife habitat without being subjected to human cruelty. With the few exceptions where the law is overridden by right to self-defence or special dispensation from the government for example to practice some scientific testing to cure diseases, as well as breed and keep guide dogs for the blind.

(If a fox kills a rabbit because it's the only way it could stay strong and pass on it's genes, it's part of a wonderful delicate eco-system. I have the choice to pick an apple off a tree and enjoy watching the rabbit. So, not wanting to parasitically take away life with instinctual desires to express their high order capabilities for low-order pleasure in our hierarchy of needs which we can find elsewhere.)

What is the Animal Rights Movement?

(Same again, just swapping philosophy for social movement, so…)

A social movement which seeks to gain collective legal rights for animals to find refuge in dense wildlife habitat without being subjected to human cruelty, etc. Etc.

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Not in the script, but for my debate notes:

Bad Definitions

Veganism

1. A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."

2. The doctrine that man should live without exploiting animals.

Animal Rights

1. Animal rights is the idea in which some, or all, animals are entitled to the possession of their own existence and that their most basic interests—such as the need to avoid suffering—should be afforded the same consideration as similar interests of human beings. That is, some species of animals have the right to be treated as the individuals they are, with their own desires and needs, rather than as unfeeling property.

2. The rights of animals to live free from human exploitation and abuse.

Animal Rights Movement

A social movement which seeks an end to the rigid moral and legal distinction drawn between human and non-human animals, an end to the status of animals as property, and an end to their use in the research, food, clothing, and entertainment industries.

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First part finito: How to simply explain what veganism is and argue for it - Part One

Script: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lbM ... JsR_LDXZ5c

*Further Reading*
https://medium.com/@jonathandickstein/r ... 9413185742
https://medium.com/@jonathandickstein/t ... 10f942e072

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