Philosophical Vegan Forum

Jebus wrote:Cigarette sin tax only pays for a tiny part (5% in the U.S.) of the added healthcare costs caused by smokers.

I mean, the US government spends very little tax money on healthcare. If all that money that is spent on military (supposedly to preserve peace, although it may very well be counter-productive) was spent on healthcare, it could do miracles. Government is to be blamed a lot more for overwhelmed hospitals than smokers are.

Jebus wrote:There is definitely some merit in the idea of denying them healthcare.

I think that idea is an absurd idea, because smokers are mostly misinformed into thinking smoking is healthy, rather than people who are doing intentional harm. Perhaps there is some merit to the idea of denying healthcare to people who attempted suicide.

Jebus wrote:How would one know for sure that a patient is a smoker?

The tar in their lungs, maybe? How do you know for certain whether a patient has been vaccinated? By antibodies? In case of a COVID infection, I suppose that will be quite a bit unreliable.

Jebus wrote:How would one treat those who used to be smokers, but gave up years ago?

How would one treat somebody who has been vaccinated, but got COVID before the vaccine started working? That can easily happen to me, by the way. I got vaccinated with J&J yesterday and, today, I went to a bar without a mask. I forgot my mask at home because I was not planning to go into a bar, I was just planning to go for a walk, but then I decided I would like to have some beer. And, apparently, they did not mind that my vaccination card was dated only yesterday. Is that too negligent for you? Where do you draw the line?

Jebus wrote:Would people who smoke other things besides tobacco be included in the ban?

And what about people who refuse other vaccines, such as influenza vaccination? Should they then be denied healthcare for influenza?

Jebus wrote: such as meat, dairy, and alcohol

I do not think so. People who do not smoke almost never get lung cancer. On the other hand, people who do not drink alcohol often do get liver failure, as liver failure is caused about as often by paracetamol overdose as it is by alcohol. Many things apart from red meat cause colon cancer. High cholesterol also is not caused solely by dairy.

teo123 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:56 pmIf all that money that is spent on military (supposedly to preserve peace, although it may very well be counter-productive) was spent on healthcare, it could do miracles. Government is to be blamed a lot more for overwhelmed hospitals than smokers are.

I'm quite happy the U.S. has the world's strongest military. I will be very concerned if/when China or Russia becomes top dog. Best of all, it doesn't cost me anything.

teo123 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:56 pmsmokers are mostly misinformed into thinking smoking is healthy

I've never met a smoker who thinks smoking is good for them. I'm sure there are a few. If there are people who believe that airplanes and prisons don't exist, there are likely some who believe smoking is beneficial.

teo123 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:56 pmThe tar in their lungs, maybe?

One wouldn't know that someone has tar in his lungs before he is given healthcare. Also, not all smoking victims have tar in their lungs.

teo123 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:56 pm How do you know for certain whether a patient has been vaccinated?

By vaccine card, passport or public record.

teo123 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:56 pm How would one treat somebody who has been vaccinated, but got COVID before the vaccine started working?

You seem confused. No one ever suggested that healthcare should not be offered to those who had the vaccine.

teo123 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:56 pmThat can easily happen to me, by the way. I got vaccinated with J&J yesterday and, today, I went to a bar without a mask.

I'm glad you got vaccinated but going to a bar without a mask weeks before you are immune is extremely irresponsible.

teo123 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:56 pmAnd what about people who refuse other vaccines, such as influenza vaccination? Should they then be denied healthcare for influenza?

Vaccine rollouts are costly. In the case of the flu, it would cost the government more to vaccinate the whole population, than to treat the few who are hospitalized because of the virus.

teo123 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:56 pmPeople who do not smoke almost never get lung cancer.

Why don't you do some quick research before writing stupid things like that. 10-20% of those who get lung cancer never smoked.

teo123 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:56 pmMany things apart from red meat cause colon cancer. High cholesterol also is not caused solely by dairy.

What are you are arguing here? No one has suggested that health care should not be offered to meat and dairy eaters.

teo123 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:56 pmPerhaps there is some merit to the idea of denying healthcare to people who attempted suicide.

Why? They don't cause harm to others. Also, many of them are mentally ill and I wouldn't want to live in a society that doesn't take care of those who are vulnerable.