Philosophical Vegan Forum

I can understand the viewpoint of only making new friends which think alike, but honestly I dont want to end up in an Echochamber. Quite the contrary, I challange myself by spending alot of times with people which have quite the opposite view. Example: Its hard to find people who are young earth creationists in germany, but I somehow have one in my group of friends. Here in Germany the relationship between rightwing and religion is quite obvious, still alot people deny that ... for whatever reason? My friend who is a YEC was also a known (he was in the BILD, our biggest trash magazin) right wing local politican in our biggest political party (christian democratic union). He quite often told me, that the whole conservative christian political landscape is, at its base, full of right wing fascists. I argue with him often and stay in contact with him and his friends because I know that they have few people who challange their beliefes.

My problem is rather, that one side sees me as an extremist now (for some reason) because i became a vegetarian and want to become a vegan. The other one says im just a poe because even when I act like a vegetarian, it's not in my heart and soul...

Corelich wrote:Quite the contrary, I challange myself by spending alot of times with people which have quite the opposite view. Example: Its hard to find people who are young earth creationists in germany, but I somehow have one in my group of friends.

That's great! I have trouble finding theists who can challenge me; good you found one.

Corelich wrote:My problem is rather, that one side sees me as an extremist now (for some reason) because i became a vegetarian and want to become a vegan. The other one says im just a poe because even when I act like a vegetarian, it's not in my heart and soul...

I would reiterate, to tell them how you feel.

The carnists are trying to make you feel bad and change -- that's their goal, because they feel uncomfortable about their own actions.

But the vegan friends have no excuse for this elitist behavior. It might help if you go vegan the rest of the way (since vegetarian is kind of a middle ground), but since you want to, and have said this, they should be supporting you in the transition, and not judging you for going too slowly.

In my view, the second somebody decides they want to be vegan, they have my respect. It's not my job to judge what's in somebody's heart; I give them the benefit of the doubt. Unless they do/say something legitimately inconsistent.
Which, it sounds like you haven't been inconsistent in any way. It's a little puzzling.

They may not realize what they're doing.

brimstoneSalad wrote:
That's great! I have trouble finding theists who can challenge me; good you found one.

Well, hes a presuppositionalist like Sye Ten Bruggencate.
He admits, that from a pure naturalist standpoint you couldn't find god.
His main argument (and I shit you not) is, that his grandma had metaphysical experiances. And his grandma, she would never lie. Yes.. it's that stupid.
Thing is, it's hard to talk to somebody who assumes god as startingpoint, agrees that there is no proof for god but his "feelies" and thinks this is more then enough.

brimstoneSalad wrote: I would reiterate, to tell them how you feel.

The carnists are trying to make you feel bad and change -- that's their goal, because they feel uncomfortable about their own actions.

But the vegan friends have no excuse for this elitist behavior. It might help if you go vegan the rest of the way (since vegetarian is kind of a middle ground), but since you want to, and have said this, they should be supporting you in the transition, and not judging you for going too slowly.

In my view, the second somebody decides they want to be vegan, they have my respect. It's not my job to judge what's in somebody's heart; I give them the benefit of the doubt. Unless they do/say something legitimately inconsistent.
Which, it sounds like you haven't been inconsistent in any way. It's a little puzzling.

They may not realize what they're doing.

I hope it just takes some time. I mean i ate a lot of meat and animal products before. Some people told me i would be the last person they would expect to become vegetarian. My guess is, it has a lot to do with the hard/fast change they are not used to.

Corelich wrote: Thing is, it's hard to talk to somebody who assumes god as startingpoint, agrees that there is no proof for god but his "feelies" and thinks this is more then enough.

Oh, so he doesn't challenge you, he's just challenged.
In that case, I don't get it.

Corelich wrote: I hope it just takes some time. I mean i ate a lot of meat and animal products before. Some people told me i would be the last person they would expect to become vegetarian. My guess is, it has a lot to do with the hard/fast change they are not used to.

That could be a big part of it. Maybe they just need a while for the shock of it to wear off.

I don't have any problems at all with people knowing I'm vegan.
Even with some ignorant/arrogant friends of mine I play videogames with (you know, that stereotypical type of rude person that tries his best to take the piss at everything he finds funny about you, with an aggressive-ish personality), I don't have problems with, and I get their respect.

It's mostly a matter of how you word it, and the confidence you show.
What usually works best is not being too aggressive and 'preachy' - to the point where their only option is either to bitterly admit they're wrong or to mock you - but not either trying to be so 'kind' and sweet as to give them the feeling that you're insecure/hesitant about it.
If they ask, make them understand veg*nism is an important part of your life that you'd never let go of, but don't make a huge deal out of it.

Don't vent about it, let them discover it first. And if they're curious, show them your logical and rational positions clearly, without trying to sugarcoat it - but don't go into details if they don't ask.
In real life, that has always worked perfectly for me.

Corelich wrote:My meat eating friends and coworkers laugh at vegetarians and vegans

A friend of mine laughed at me the first time I told him too, but now he's trying to reduce meat and dairy consumption.
Nobody is completely unaffected if you show them valid points, and if they laugh at you at first, play cool with it.

Corelich wrote: The point she made was a different. Vegetarianism isn't a central thing in my life. I don't spend several hours a week reading or informing myself about it.

Next time, bring a dictionary with you, and show her the definition of vegetarian.
Vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat meat, including fish. That's all there is to it. There's not a certain amount of time you have spend informing yourself to be able to call yourself vegetarian.
If she doesn't agree, then she's not really a person you can reason with.

Corelich wrote:She said this is like somebody who does this because its hip and not like somebody who does it because of moral reasons. Then she adds, that she know im not such a "hip" person and I do it because of moral reasons, still i'm not a vegetarian.

She doesn't make any sense here. She's even contradicting herself.
If I were you, I'd probably just avoid having conversations with her regarding this topic. Waste of time and energy.

Corelich wrote:My problem is rather, that one side sees me as an extremist now (for some reason) because i became a vegetarian and want to become a vegan.

If you show them that there are sound and valid reasons to be vegan, they shouldn't see you as an extremist.
There's not much else to it.
Unless, like Brimstone said, they're cowardly trying to make you feel bad - at that point, I don't know why you'd want to hang out with those people.