Philosophical Vegan Forum

brimstoneSalad wrote:

dan1073 wrote:I use fish oil in as one of my supplements in the morning.

Isaac wrote: I just use flaxseed oil. Its about the same price and offers the same benefits.

Not exactly.

Fish oil is terrible on a number of levels (from environmental destruction, to contamination and rancidity), but Flax oil based Omega 3 (which are ALA) needs to be converted into other forms in the body (EPA and DHA), and that conversion efficiency is limited by overall dietary ratios (and other lifestyle, genetic, and epigenetic factors).

Flax is fine, but it may be misleading to suggest it has the same benefits; in some contexts it may, but in other situations and biochemistry, it could be vastly inferior, and even be completely unable to improve health.

Algae based omegas are now available (even DHA and EPA- look out for those specifically), and are far superior to flax seed oil (more comparable to fish oil- it is, after all, where fish get their oil from).

Krill oil is another step towards the algal source (krill are the middle men, so to speak), and arguably far superior to fish oil in a number of ways.

If you don't want to take my advice on vegan options (I'll go into that more below), please AT LEAST switch to Krill oil instead of fish oil- you'll be doing less damage to the environment, and eating lower on the food chain.

As much as I hate to post a Mercola link, even he isn't a fan of fish oil and he makes some good points (it's rare, I know):

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... ource.aspx
(I wouldn't give much credence to the cancer link with flax; to be fair, Mercola doesn't seem to either, and just mentions it)


Now, as to vegan options:

First and foremost; it's probably entirely unnecessary to take any omega supplement if you improve your dietary fat intake.
That means better fats, not just less fat- although since most fats found in the diet are bad, less fat can help a lot.

The main point of all of this is that if your Omega 6 is too high compared to Omega 3, it seems that your body will have trouble converting the Omega 3 into the needed forms.
Basically, the Omega 3 is getting crowded out by Omega 6.
So, if you're eating too much Omega 6, it doesn't even do much good to take a supplement of Omega 3 (you'd have to take absurdly large amounts)

Your body can handle more Omega 6 than 3- but not too much.
1:1 ratio is awesome. But a 4:1 ratio is acceptable too. 10:1 starts to get unhealthy. 20:1 is like a typical American diet.

Of course, what ratio is needed for health for YOU depends on other factors of environment, genetics, and even epigenetics- not everybody is the same.
If you have a history of heart disease in your family, if you're obese or you drink or smoke (if you do, quit that by the way), then you may need more Omega 3 than other people.

The fats in leafy vegetables are brimming with healthy Omega 3.
If you avoid oil entirely, and top off on veggies, you will likely have no problem (unless you have some kind of genetic defect).

If you need to use oil to cook at high heat, use olive oil- it's higher in monounsaturated fatty acids, which won't disturb your omega 3:6 ratio as much as other oils.
It's more of a neutral fat.
If you need to use oil for salad, or baking (but not roasting or broiling), or tossing with pasta (but not frying), use canola oil (it's quite high in Omega 3). Keep the bottle in the refrigerator to slow rancidification (if you can find a brand that's cold pressed and already refrigerated, that's even better).

Choosing the right oils, and avoiding "bad" fats, alone should give you good heart health without ever having to take a pill.

For fatty foods like nuts, be mindful, or eat them in moderation.

Wiki has a pretty good list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratio_of_f ... rent_foods

You want high Omega 3, low Omega 6
You'll see, unfortunately, Almonds are crap. Don't eat those (or eat them rarely)

Chia seeds and flax seeds are awesome.
Walnuts are pretty good too (not awesome, but not bad).
Pecans are pretty mediocre- use in moderation.

It doesn't mention hemp seeds on there, but hemp seeds are the bomb.

Lots of great options to make nut cheeses, etc. with.


You don't have to be obsessive- just, when you can, choose the foods with healthier fat ratios.



Now, if you're an unapologetic junk food vegan, and you don't want to do that...

Then it's time for supplements.

But forget flax oil, unless you're going to be drinking the stuff.

When your Omega 3 and 6 ratio is out of whack, your body isn't going to be able to efficiently convert the Omega 3 you eat (ALA) into the needed forms.

That means you have to eat those nutrients pre-converted.

There are three acronyms you need to remember: ALA, EPA, and DHA

ALA is the Omega 3 which you find in the raw form in plants- flax, etc.

Your body naturally converts ALA into EPA and DHA. But ONLY if you have a low ratio of Omega 6 floating around (which otherwise sabotages the process)

So, if you're going to eat junk food, you need to get EPA and DHA directly.

Animal sources of Omega 3 contain EPA and DHA, because the animal already did the hard work converting it (before being killed for it).
Thankfully, there are vegan sources.

Just search vegan EPA, DHA. They're made from special kinds and processing of marine algae (Warning: not all algae omega 3 will contain DHA and EPA- read labels carefully!)

Here's one of the top links:

http://www.drfuhrman.com/shop/DHA_EPA.aspx


Yeah, I know it's expensive- $1 a day.

That's why I usually recommend just eating better.

If you want to eat better and take something like this (and you can afford it), that's awesome (and reasonably advisable if you have a family history of heart disease).

If you can't afford vegan DHA/EPA, and you do have a family history of heart disease, then you have to do what you have to do (no judgement here).
But if you can afford it, or if you can choose dietary methods instead, I strongly encourage you to do so instead of taking fish oil.

thebestofenergy wrote: Great post. Very informed and very useful to read for everyone that's going vegan. I found plenty of articles that say you must take Omega 3 supplements as a vegan. So much bullshit.
There is plenty of vegetables and seeds that cointain it, and algae are an excellent source for it too.