A discussion on TFES forum

[brimstoneSalad]

Look, brimstone, this dude is just the guy who reads a page on some website, and if it seems legit, he'll jump on the bandwagon.

The problem is he only reads one side that is easier to read (which will always be the pseudoscience, which is easier than actual science), and then decides that side is legit when he doesn't have both sides of the story, and he isn't even capable of evaluating the claims because of his ignorance of science and engineering.

He needs to stop making these assertions without having the prerequisite knowledge to do so. As somebody who actually understands how rockets work -- and most science in general because I spent years learning about it -- it's profoundly insulting.

I would answer his sincere questions about how rockets work if he would stop claiming that they don't work and siding with the conspiracy theorists, apologize for making that claim, and pay me an iota of respect and assume that they do work, and just try to learn how.

IF after learning how they work, he found flaws in the science (like he did the math and proved there wasn't enough reaction mass, or a high enough exit velocity wasn't possible), that would be another matter entirely. Any legitimate criticism of science requires an understanding of science, and having done the math in order to criticize it. Show that the math doesn't work, and you have finally provided real evidence.

[teo123]

I don't know what do you mean by "respect". You spread what we both know are lies, right? Just like Shane Killian's Lunar Lunacy, so are others just making straw-mans.
Wikipedia, for example, claims that the astronaut in the shadow is illuminated by the light reflected from the dust. Well, on the Earth, it is possible and is a well-known phenomenon known as Tyndall's effect. However, it applies, and you more than likely know that, only to the colloid systems, like the air, and it doesn't apply to the vacuum on the Moon. On the Moon the dust can't be dispersed in the air, since there is no air, so all the dust must be aligned on the flat ground. And, as a simple diagram can show, then all the light-rays would be reflected away from the astronaut.

So, the objects in the shadows should be completely dark. They aren't. You can even see colors.

And just like Shane Killian did, Wikipedia claims that intersecting shadows are simply a result of perspective. They aren't. The perspective makes the parallel shadows appear to intersect at the horizon. They don't intersect at the horizon, they intersect at random points on the ground.

Wikipedia also claims that lenses contribute to the effect. They can't. Lenses in the cameras are converging lenses, and they magnify things. They would make the distances between the shadows appear greater than they actually are, and would therefore make the shadows appear to intersect above the horizon, and not below it.
Shane Killian also tried to refute their "ad-hoc explanations", and, as I explained in my last post, he just straw-manned them.

I am not propagating the claims of some other conspiracy theorists, I am simply applying what I have learned in school. If I am wrong to accuse you, sorry, but that's a conclusion from what I know now.

[brimstoneSalad]

You spread what we both know are lies, right?

Call me a liar. Fuck off, you asshole. This is the shit I'm talking about.

If I am wrong to accuse you, sorry, but that's a conclusion from what I know now.

Fuck you.
You can't just call me a liar, and then say "Sorry if I'm wrong". Just don't do it to begin with. A shallow conditional apology is not adequate, and no I will not forgive you. That was not the apology I asked for.
And YES you are a conspiracy theorist when you're still calling me a liar and citing this bullshit instead of asking honest questions.

And you wonder why people are so insulted by you, you imbecile.

You don't know shit, you pathetically ignorant child.

Mars has fucking dust storms, and that's common knowledge to anybody with even the most basic information about space and our solar system from elementary school.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... fountains/
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... oonstorms/

You don't need air to suspend the nano-sized dust particles that exist on the moon dipshit.

Wikipedia claims that intersecting shadows are simply a result of perspective.

Wikipedia makes no such claims, cretin.
Either you're just a fucking liar (which is probable), or you have a very selective reading ability and don't understand that uneven ground catches shadows at different angles. Idiot.

Shadows on the Moon are complicated by reflected light, uneven ground, wide-angle lens distortion, and lunar dust. There are several light sources: the Sun, sunlight reflected from the Earth, sunlight reflected from the Moon's surface, and sunlight reflected from the astronauts and the Lunar Module. Light from these sources is scattered by lunar dust in many directions, including into shadows. Shadows falling into craters and hills may appear longer, shorter and distorted.[98] Furthermore, shadows display the properties of vanishing point perspective, leading them to converge to a point on the horizon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_land ... m_oddities

And read this you dumbass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide-angle_lens

Just read the whole page, you arrogant dimwit. Both of them.
If you don't accept basic optics, then buy a damn camera with a wide angle lens and try it yourself instead of pulling these "I don't understand it therefore conspiracy!" arguments out of your ass.

And maybe take five minutes to search for some actual answers to these easily answered "problems" you think you're finding everywhere because you have no critical thinking skills.

And watch this, since you have such shit reading comprehension: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2m7k1z

[Red]

I think teo was being ironic.

[brimstoneSalad]

I think teo was being ironic.

You mean moronic?

[Jebus]

This is right up there among the most entertaining threads I've ever followed.

[teo123]

Of course I was trolling. I pretended that I don't know about the diffuse reflection (see the diagram). I don't know how to make it more obvious. I even alluded to it with " so all the dust must be aligned on the flat ground". As for the intersecting shadows, I assumed that the objects creating the shadows are simply not exactly perpendicular to the ground (especially one creating the down left shadow, since it's not even in the picture). But, yeah, if brimstoneSalad says that the levitating dust and lenses are explanations, I guess it is so.

Still, I don't understand those explanations very well. Wouldn't the electrically charged levitating dust polarize the space suits and make them attract dust more and more? Probably not, but I still don't understand why.
As for the wide-angled lenses, the Wikipedia says that "For example, buildings appear to be falling backwards much more severely when the camera is pointed upward from ground level than they would if photographed with a normal lens at the same distance from the subject, because more of the subject building is visible in the wide-angle shot." Therefore, I was right and the true parallel shadows would appear to intersect above the horizon. I guess that bimstoneSalad was simply too angry to even think about it.

So, thank you, people. I've learned a lot of science in a very funny way. I am sorry if I was insulting, that wasn't my intention.

And you were right, it's a very bad idea to behave like an idiot if you try to spread veganism. I felt so bad about it, so I asked vegans on other forums to join the discussion and show that not all vegans are like that. But, yeah, if they actually do that, they will probably be accused of being a part of massive conspiracy to break the will of the people by starving them, just like I was. I think they expect that, since meat-eaters claiming that repeated themselves on the last page.

As for the supposedly insulted RE-ers, I decided to change my sing on that forum to "A former Flat Earther" and I mentioned that I am not a FE-er any more on the thread about veganism. And I still don't think people were right to constantly insult me for being a deluded FE-er instead of educating me.

Look, I won't accomplish anything by feeling guilty.

[Red]

I'm not sure if teo is serious or if he is just pretending to not look stupid.

[teo123]

The problem is that I do feel guilty for what I was doing, but I really don't know how to resolve that guilt. Apologizing to everyone in real life is going to make me feel more guilty.

[teo123]

I decided to admit that I knew about that with the illuminated part of the Moon not appearing to align with the Sun, It's called the Moon terminator illusion. Vsauce made a video on that, I was just being dishonest.