Philosophical Vegan Forum

brimstoneSalad wrote:
You don't owe me an apology for being a bitch, you can be as bitchy as you want (cuss me out if you want, that's less rude than what you did), you owe me an apology for ignoring my entire post. Noticing that somebody posted a link to a web page you assume you disagree with on some basis is not a justification to ignore everything they say and dismissing everything thereafter- that's a logical fallacy. And that's what you have to apologize for.

I posted that link for your benefit, because it's a good overview of the issue, and contains a lot of other actual sources linked from within it. But it shouldn't have mattered where those links went, even to some company selling Fluoride, my post stands on its own: Most of which addressed your "toilet to tap" claim, which is a malicious lie and mischaracterization.

When you apologize for your incredibly rude and lazy post before, then I will give you the consideration of replying to your last post, and responding to the points you think you made.
If you can't even recognize what you did wrong by ignoring my entire post, then you don't deserve the respect of anybody considering what you have to say on anything- because you are a fundamentally closed-minded moonbat without a rational thought in your head.

Admit that you made a mistake, apologize for it, and don't do it again. The basic standard of intellectual honesty demands we at least have a basic understanding of the arguments against our positions before dismissing them- refusing to even read them when somebody takes the time to present them is the lowest of arrogant ignorance. Apologize for doing just that, or suffer the contempt you have rightly earned.

You know what, I am sorry honey you are so right!
That was rude and you are right so lazy!
Forgive me, I am a very busy mama & when I saw the wiki references I automatically assumed you were young and did not know what you were talking about.
I appreciate you judging and stereotyping me & calling me a closed minded moonbat. I don't trust the american government so I don't trust any of the things that they offer to the masses like, GMO CROPS(monsantos), VACCINATIONS, MEDICATIONS, TAP WATER, LIVESTOCK.... Do you get the picture now?
I feel it is a conspiracy to have trust in our American government & I don't believe anything they say.
I don't believe in politics either.
People that think their opinion matters when it comes to 'politics' are just fucking stupid!
All it is another distraction.
Can't distract them with religion, alright lets give them politics, something to believe in something they think their say in matters!
It doesn't, it's better to be safe than sorry!

Oh, and I do like how you got that moonbat phrase from the wiki site you referenced I got a kick out of that I've never heard of the term moonbat before!
I still need to take a picture of the water treatment center in my town because they still reconstitute the water down here where I am from!

PrincessPeach wrote: I appreciate you judging and stereotyping me & calling me a closed minded moonbat. I don't trust the american government so I don't trust any of the things that they offer to the masses like, GMO CROPS(monsantos), VACCINATIONS, MEDICATIONS, TAP WATER, LIVESTOCK.... Do you get the picture now?

I already had the picture. If you're not a poe, then you're definitely a moonbat.

Whether you are completely closed minded, or you are open minded, has yet to be fully determined- although I'd put my money on the former.

So then, I will pose a question: What would convince you that you're wrong? Can you give an example of the kind of evidence that would satisfy you and convince you to turn a 180 on your positions?

If you can't, then of course you are closed minded.

I can easily debunk the "sources" you gave before- the scientific ignorance on that page rivals creationists, and that's hard to do (Ken Ham could probably even correctly tell you why Fluorides are less dangerous than lead) - but it will be useless to debunk it if you've already made up your mind and there's no evidence that will convince you otherwise.

I don't think anybody here buys into that lunacy, so you will find yourself very, very alone (even hated, because you're feeding into the negative stereotypes people have of vegans) if you keep this stuff up.

The libertarians and anarchists here don't even think the government is as evil as you do (just that it's a system prone to corruption, which it is, and that we'd be better off without it, which is debatable but another topic), but as skeptics they trust science and scientific evidence as the best thing we have - something you probably aren't willing to do unless you already agree with the findings and it fits into your confirmation bias.

PrincessPeach wrote: I feel it is a conspiracy to have trust in our American government & I don't believe anything they say.

"I'm not a conspiracy, you're a conspiracy! Myeh!"

You don't even know what words mean. Come on, use English.

What's a conspiracy? Use a dictionary. If you don't know what words mean, then look them up.

You can do this if you try. You can find your own mistakes if you care enough to make an effort.
I shouldn't have to correct you on basic word usage like this.

You're already far enough behind by buying into all of that moonbat nonsense, but even moonbats know what words mean.

PrincessPeach wrote: I don't believe in politics either.
People that think their opinion matters when it comes to 'politics' are just fucking stupid!

Wow, almost everybody is fucking stupid except you, huh?

It must be great to be so enlightened that you can see through the evil government conspiracies to pollute our bodies and brain wash the people with drugs so the Illuminati can come to power and rule the world with the Mole people and Aliens.

PrincessPeach wrote: All it is another distraction.
Can't distract them with religion, alright lets give them politics, something to believe in something they think their say in matters!
It doesn't, it's better to be safe than sorry!

You're not the looniest moonbat I've ever met, but your ratio of loonie to intelligence may be the highest I've ever seen.

Intelligence can be related to intense conspiracy theory beliefs, because an overactive mind can draw correlations that aren't there, but nothing you've said has been coherent enough to lead me to believe that's the source of your problem. As far as I can tell, based on your lack of understanding of your own conspiracy theories, you haven't "figured out" any of this for yourself, but you've just had a LOT of Kool-Aid fed to you by your less than rational peers.

You need to stop gobbling up all of the conspiracy theory nonsense people give you, and do your own research.

Let's try it out:

Explain to me why Fluoride is less dangerous to consume in small amounts than is lead. You can figure it out if you try- it's not rocket science.
It's elementary school level chemistry and biology.

I'll even give you a hint, one word, 15 letters. Here, I'll even give you five of them, just fill in the spaces:

B _ _ A_ _ _ M _ _ A _ _ _ N

(No, it's not Batman, Batman only has six letters. This has more letters than that: 15 is bigger than 6.)

If you can't even figure that out for yourself, then you're probably completely hopeless at learning anything for yourself.

PrincessPeach wrote: I still need to take a picture of the water treatment center in my town because they still reconstitute the water down here where I am from!

Again with the English usage. Why do you refuse to use words correctly?
I've already told you this. Reconstituted water is not a thing.

re·con·sti·tute
rēˈkänstəˌt(y)o͞ot
verb
build up again from parts; reconstruct.

• change the form and organization of (an institution).
  "he reconstituted his cabinet"
• restore (something dried, especially food) to its original state by adding water to it.
  "reconstituted milk"

You would reconstitute water by adding water to dried water (drying being the process of removing water from something). If you remove water from water, what's left? You can figure this out if you try.

You can reconstitute (remineralize being the proper term, if you're adding minerals to water rather than the other way around) "mineral water" specifically, because it has non-water components that can be removed and mixed with pure water to form mineral water again.
You can also reconstitute pond water, or salt water, or some other kind of non-pure water mixture which contains ionic and solid components which remain as a residue when dried, and differentiate it from pure water.

You can not reconstitute pure water by drying it and then adding water to it, because there's nothing to add water to- there are no other ingredients there, it's just water.


Don't just take a picture, take a tour of the facility and learn how the whole thing actually works. Ask questions, and listen to the answers with some humility without accusing the workers of trying to poison everybody, or being brainwashed government drones.

Learn something from an actual source for once.

Brimstone, this is the internet & I can not tell if you are being sarcastic or not with me...

Let me just clarify I have never watched one conspiracy theory video ever...
All of my 'paranoids' come from with-in my head and formed by my logic.

When I was breastfeeding my son if I had to go on an antibiotic my breast milk would be toxic enough to my son that I would be advised not to breastfeed. Hmmm, seeing as so many people and scientist trust animal lab tests and how those results would affect humans one would assume that if a COW was given antibiotics that trace amounts of that antibiotic would be present in commercial milks. Now, knowing that a gallon of milk did not come from just one cow but a mixture of all the different cows milk together, one could assume that there would be trace amounts of multiple antibiotics in the milk, as well as any other medication or growth hormone used (rBGH or rBST)... Now Mr. Sciencey why has every other country besides USA out-lawwed or banned the use of those growth hormones....?
Any wonder why there are so many auto-immune disorders with no diagnosis as to why, or why so many people are so sick but medically nothing is wrong with them?
Could it possibly be that they have been consuming since birth small amounts of antibiotics through the meat/dairy they eat? I feel yes


You can place your judgement on me, for me what I am doing is right and the truth in my mind, it may not be the truth for you but it is for me.

I feel as if I am being smart, I do not live my life in fear of anything in fact I feel great & the level of mental clarity I have now is better than ever.
Just because all water looks the same does not mean it is the same... If I am loony for avoiding fluoride because every other country has then by all means lets print me up a shirt to parade around in!

Really though I still think you should stop drinking tap water for a month and see how you feel....

PrincessPeach wrote: Let me just clarify I have never watched one conspiracy theory video ever...
All of my 'paranoids' come from with-in my head and formed by my logic.

No, they are most certainly not all formed by logic - and you don't get to have your own personal form of logic. Logic is logic, fallacies are fallacies- and you are employing a number of fallacies in your conspiracy theories.

PrincessPeach wrote: You can place your judgement on me, for me what I am doing is right and the truth in my mind, it may not be the truth for you but it is for me.

That's not how truth works. Each person's "opinion" of reality isn't equally valid as fact. Your subjective beliefs are not a reliable indication of what is real. Science is, because it uses objective methodology that controls for variables- from the placebo effect, to observer bias. You are in no way shape or form practicing science.

PrincessPeach wrote: Hmmm, seeing as so many people and scientist trust animal lab tests and how those results would affect humans one would assume that if a COW was given antibiotics that trace amounts of that antibiotic would be present in commercial milks.

We don't have to assume this. We know this to be true because it has been proved time and again. There is no doubt that when cows are given antibiotics, traces show up in milk. Both scientists AND the government are concerned about this fact.

Here's an industry related site from a university that teaches animal sciences:

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/foodsci/e ... idues.html

The industry itself admits that this is a problem.
Scientists are pushing for lower antibiotic levels in milk, and the government is pushing for regulations.

This is how the world actually works.

When something is true, there's evidence for it.
When something is true, it's just true for everybody - if they don't believe it, it doesn't start being untrue, and if they do believe something that's not true (as you do, with regards to fluoride, vaccines, and some medication) that doesn't make it true.

Evidence demonstrates that something is true or not -- not your assumptions.

PrincessPeach wrote: Now Mr. Sciencey why has every other country besides USA out-lawwed or banned the use of those growth hormones....?

Because we have a stronger animal agriculture lobby.

The science is the science.

If the science says it's bad, then it doesn't matter whether it's illegal or legal- it's bad.
If the science says it's harmless, then it doesn't matter whether it's illegal or legal- it's harmless.

If you weren't so dogmatic about the evil of government, you might be capable of being realistic. That is, recognizing that while government generally tries to protect its people, its power is limited by politics and agricultural lobbies.

There are good and bad people in every government, fighting each other over these issues. And every government does some good things, and some stupid things.

PrincessPeach wrote: Any wonder why there are so many auto-immune disorders with no diagnosis as to why, or why so many people are so sick but medically nothing is wrong with them?
Could it possibly be that they have been consuming since birth small amounts of antibiotics through the meat/dairy they eat? I feel yes

What you feel doesn't matter. Your ignorance on this subject is palpable. You don't have the knowledge or reasoning ability to assess the situation.

Scientists do.

They worry that antibiotics in these products are bad because:

1. They contribute to antibiotic resistant bacteria (the same way antibiotic hand soap does- also very bad!)
2. They damage the intestinal flora, potentially killing off good bacteria, and letting more pathogenic resistant bacteria take over- which can have severe nutritional consequences, and other effects which are more complicated and you wouldn't understand if I told you.

Autoimmune disease is more complicated, and you aren't intelligent enough to understand how the immune system works - so stop pretending to. Leave the opinions to the experts.

Nobody is "sick with nothing medically wrong with them", that's a myth, due to ignorant doctors who assume nothing is wrong because they don't have the experience to see it. General practitioners are mostly idiots- if there's something wrong with you, a specialist has the education and experience to determine what that is, not a GP.

Don't base your views on medical science, which is actually quite advanced but far too large for any one normal person to understand all of, on the limited and often incompetent opinions of your family doctor - somebody who has had only very basic medical education and is by no means a specialist or even a scientist of any kind.

PrincessPeach wrote: I feel as if I am being smart,

No, you're being an idiot, and you're making all vegans look bad. And you're harming animals in the process.

When you tell people this:
1. Veganism is healthy
2. Fluoride is more dangerous than lead

The assertion #2 has destroyed your credibility. #2 is false, entirely, completely, undeniably except by a complete moron who has no knowledge of chemistry or biology.

By making a false assertion #2, and destroying your credibility, you now make (in the minds of those who hear you) assertion #1 suspect.

#1 is true
#2 is false

But when you put them together, the falsehood of assertion #2 damages the reputation of assertion #1 by association in the minds of those who hear them together.

Do you not understand this?

This is why people think vegans are crazy, and they think veganism is moonbat bullshit. Because vegans like you go around damaging our reputation by asserting obvious falsehoods.

Look, if you want to believe that in your heart, fine, but either keep it to yourself and stop telling people that, or stop telling people you're vegan. We don't need people like you damaging the reputation of veganism by making us all look like raving lunatics.

Veganism is slowly developing a reputation for being rational- and it's one it sorely needs if it's going to catch on beyond the fringe far-left.

PrincessPeach wrote: I do not live my life in fear of anything in fact I feel great & the level of mental clarity I have now is better than ever.

No, no it's not. Your level of delusion is higher than ever. That's what moonbats do- they mistake delusion for mental 'clarity'.

You're accidentally half-right about meat and milk. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
But your head is filled with so much garbage nobody with an iota of sense will ever take you seriously on anything- even the things you're right about.

If you care about veganism at all, drop all of the bullshit and represent it as a rational human being.

PrincessPeach wrote: Just because all water looks the same does not mean it is the same...

What kind of straw man is that?

You do realize I'm talking about something called biochemistry, right?
We're not evaluating water based on human eyesight. Nobody is doing that.

PrincessPeach wrote: If I am loony for avoiding fluoride because every other country has then by all means lets print me up a shirt to parade around in!

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon
I shouldn't have to explain these things to you.

What countries make legal or illegal, or do or don't do, has everything to do with politics, and the lobbying of interest groups, and very little to do with actual science. Only regulatory bodies that are a few steps removed from the rule of the uneducated paranoid masses and lobby groups can actually establish policy based on science (the EPA, for example, but they have limited political power).

You probably don't know this, but there are also non-stupid reasons to not fluoridate water (fiscal reasons; e.g. cost vs. efficacy - some countries fluoridate other things like table salt instead, since that's a cheaper way to deliver the fluoride to people; if you wanted to argue for that instead, that's reasonable).

If you want to proudly advertise your idiocy, fine. But don't simultaneously advertise the fact that you are vegan. You make us all look bad, and you undermine the legitimate arguments for veganism in the process.

You are to veganism as the Taliban is to moderate Islam.

Vegans are well advised to either educate or shun the fringe nut-jobs, until they either stop being nut-jobs and start being rational, or stop calling themselves vegans.

PrincessPeach wrote: Really though I still think you should stop drinking tap water for a month and see how you feel....

The level of idiocy in this comment is so high I can't even find the words to reply to it.

Maybe somebody more patient than I can explain the concept to you.

I suggest that you watch all of the videos here and become a ceritfied inbound marketing professional like I am, oh best of all it is free! [Link removed- please do not spam or solicit unrelated services]


I have used every different combination in the search bar that I could think of to try and find something to back up you saying 'that flouride is safer to consume in small amounts than lead...'
I know that I am dyslexic and sometimes I may flip things around but; every link on every page says fluoride is more toxic than lead


You have now just said that you believe fluroide to be toxic, flouroide's toxicty to lead is not relevant to the topic at hand and just by the fact that you admited flouride to be toxic, why in the world would you want to consume it all?
Here is the google search result page
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=c ... +than+lead
now mind you some of the websites may have moved up or down in the search pages by the time you have looked at it but I am sure they will all say the same thing, flouride is more toxic than lead.

& why are you casting me out as a certain type of vegan, don't you realize your being worse of a sterotype than me by trying to call me out on something that I am not (a conspiracey theorist)

You are a very literal person I can tell, I do feel that it would be benifcial for you to spend more time on hubspot.com educating yourself for free and less time writing short stories to me on the internet. I do enjoy them though thanks I appreicate the time, thought, and effort!

PrincessPeach wrote: I have used every different combination in the search bar that I could think of to try and find something to back up you saying 'that flouride is safer to consume in small amounts than lead...'
I know that I am dyslexic and sometimes I may flip things around but; every link on every page says fluoride is more toxic than lead

You know I pretty much gave you the answer to this already above.

B _ _ A _ _ _ M _ _ A _ _ _ N

Fill in the banks.

Like I said before, if you can't figure that out - and you should know this word as a vegan - then you're completely hopeless.

Here's another Hint: This is the main reason fish is so unhealthy, and sea weed is not.

PrincessPeach wrote:You have now just said that you believe fluroide to be toxic, flouroide's toxicty to lead is not relevant to the topic at hand and just by the fact that you admited flouride to be toxic, why in the world would you want to consume it all?

Your ignorance is astounding.

Virtually EVERYTHING is TOXIC on some level. The issue is amounts, and the benefit it produces as a trade-off to that toxicity.

Fruits and vegetables have all sorts of toxicants in them, and so does meat and dairy.
Everything we eat is poison in some way.

Cyanide is overwhelmingly common in plants, along with Nicotine, Oxalates, and any number of acids and metals that would make us sick or kill us in large amounts.

They don't kill us because our bodies are very good at getting rid of the bad stuff, or things in excess amounts. But our bodies have limits- at a certain point, our capacity to deal with toxicants of various types is less than amount we're eating (in which case, we develop problems).


Why do you refuse to understand this?


If you don't want to eat anything toxic, you had better stop eating entirely.

Instead, if you want to avoid toxicants that our bodies have trouble removing, and only eat things with low levels of toxicants that our bodies can easily remove from our systems (as I try to), all you need to do is understand the difference between the two and do an iota of research.

Fluoride is safer to consume in small amounts than is lead.

Lead is dangerous to consume in almost any appreciable amount. Why? The answer is above.
Fluoride is completely safe to consume up to a certain amount per day, after which point higher amounts become dangerous. Why? The answer, again, is above.
Cyanide is completely safe to consume up to a certain amount per day, after which point higher amounts of it too become dangerous. Why? The answer is above.

All toxicants are not created equal, and your body doesn't treat them the same way (they aren't chemically the same).

PrincessPeach wrote:& why are you casting me out as a certain type of vegan, don't you realize your being worse of a sterotype than me by trying to call me out on something that I am not (a conspiracey theorist)

Because you're damaging the vegan movement by ranting on with this bullshit. You reduce all of our collective credibility, and credibility is something we desperately need to maintain.

You don't even understand the most rudimentary concepts of biochemistry. It's absurd.

You are most certainly a conspiracy theorist. You think the government is engaging in a conspiracy to poison us all with fluoride to make us easy to brainwash.

That's grade-A tin-foil hat moonbattery.

You clearly can not be trusted to think for yourself, and that's a real shame.

PrincessPeach wrote:I suggest that you watch all of the videos here and become a ceritfied inbound marketing professional like I am, oh best of all it is free!

Spamming/solicitation of that kind is not allowed. Please refrain from advertising and linking to other websites or services that are unrelated to veganism/atheism, and particularly that are unrelated to the topic at hand.

I removed your link, since it's not appropriate. You're not in trouble, just please don't do that.

That's all, please carry on.

Moderationator 3000 wrote:

PrincessPeach wrote:I suggest that you watch all of the videos here and become a ceritfied inbound marketing professional like I am, oh best of all it is free!

Spamming/solicitation of that kind is not allowed. Please refrain from advertising and linking to other websites or services that are unrelated to veganism/atheism, and particularly that are unrelated to the topic at hand.

I removed your link, since it's not appropriate. You're not in trouble, just please don't do that.

That's all, please carry on.

sorry !

Wow brimstone, I really am intrigued with your knowledge now for some reason... What you are saying is starting to make some sense to me...

See when you are being a little nicer I catch on better to the things you are trying to say..

Can we start a hang man sesession or something until I get it...?