Philosophical Vegan Forum

brimstoneSalad wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:55 pm

Canastenard wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:22 am This is a follow-up to my last post which inspired me to suggest something: adding a section about sustainable agriculture in the Wiki. That page would describe what agriculture would look like in a vegan world, and the evidence based practices to make sure we get a sustainable agriculture which provides people their nutritional needs while minimizing environmental damage. Obviously widespread veganism would imply a massive shift from agriculture as it currently exists, with animal agriculture being a large part of it, so if we want to advocate for veganism then we must show how a world without slaughterhouses would sustain its food suply.

That's a great idea!

Can you get it started? If you can sign up to the wiki, and let us know your username, we'll give you permissions.

I created an account on the Wiki, with the same username as here (Canastenard).
I'm not an expert in agricultural science, but I've learned a little bit with my own research to start a stub. I'd be glad to get criticism and correction from people who know better than be on certain points at least.
I think it's important to describe how agriculture would look like in a world that takes animal ethics into account, because it will make sure everyone can see in their mind how society would look like without slaughtergouses, and also because domestic animals being harmed is obviously not the only thing to know about when talking about farming.

Although I've seen the table of contents, I don't see where an article about sustainable agriculture would fit... While learning about it would benefit everyone because popularization of knowledge about evidence-based sustainable agriculture can only be a good thing, farmers would be the only one to put these in practice. Maybe in ethical issues?

And asides from working on the sustainable agriculture section, I'm really interested in contributing to the pages "Bad Arguments for veganism" and "All the arguments against" just for one thing: the appeal to nature. I just dislike that fallacy so much and would have a lot of fun debunking it for both sides

Canastenard wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:38 pm I created an account on the Wiki, with the same username as here (Canastenard).

You're approved to edit now.

I added it under Environmentalist Approach in the Table Of Contents. We can move it in the TOC later if need be, or even have it linked multiple times.
http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Sustainable_Vegan_Agriculture
Started the article with "Work In Progress" so I could link here.

Canastenard wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:38 pmI'm not an expert in agricultural science, but I've learned a little bit with my own research to start a stub. I'd be glad to get criticism and correction from people who know better than be on certain points at least.

A stub with some general categories and organization and some basic info is great to help get things started.

Canastenard wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:38 pm And asides from working on the sustainable agriculture section, I'm really interested in contributing to the pages "Bad Arguments for veganism" and "All the arguments against" just for one thing: the appeal to nature. I just dislike that fallacy so much and would have a lot of fun debunking it for both sides

Sounds great, please do!

I've made the Sustainable Vegan Agriculture page into a stub. I've written the intro describing the problems with animal agriculture, and I've created several sections, although without completing them yet. Most notably a "Plant agriculture" section in which are going to be presented the best agricultural practices. I've also made a "Food system" section, in order to describe how that food would be distributed to people so they can reach their nutritional needs. I've made a section about B12 and written a bit because it would of course be necessary to make sure everyone gets it from either fortified food or supplement.

But if you want to know what I fear the most in a vegan world, it's conspiracy theories about B12, similar to current anti-vaccine and anti-water fluoridation positions that currently exist. No way people won't complain about how "unnatural" it is and how the cyanure part of cyanocobalamin (generally said to be the best form of B12 for supplementation) is going to poison everyone. That's why it is important to teach critical thinking and debunk the "nature knowns better" sentiment to our audience to minimize the risk of having such nonsense in the future.

Canastenard wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:36 pm But if you want to know what I fear the most in a vegan world, it's conspiracy theories about B12, similar to current anti-vaccine and anti-water fluoridation positions that currently exist. No way people won't complain about how "unnatural" it is and how the cyanure part of cyanocobalamin (generally said to be the best form of B12 for supplementation) is going to poison everyone. That's why it is important to teach critical thinking and debunk the "nature knowns better" sentiment to our audience to minimize the risk of having such nonsense in the future.

I think that would be pretty quickly self correcting for the most part.
It's not like the more subtle health effects of missing fluoride in water.

They'll find a source... it may end up being oysters, but that's fine, and probably sustainable.

This is a technical question about adding internal endnotes when editing the phil vegan wiki, and I'm assuming that this is the right place on the forum at which to ask it.

Does anyone know how to add an internal endnote, or an endnote which is such that, when one clicks on it, it takes one down to a reference to the source in the references section in the same entry? These are extremely common on the general Wikipedia.

I take it that one can do an internal link to a section, so that one could try to have a link to internal endnote 1 as [[#1|1]], but I take it that this would involve adding a new internal section for each endnote. Also I wouldn't know how to super-script type font on endnotes if done this way. Is there a better way to do internal endnotes?

Thanks,
Margaret

@Margaret Hayek I don't think it has that functionality right now, but there's an extension I think I can enable to create it.

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Cite

Does that look OK? If so, I'll work on enabling it.

brimstoneSalad wrote: ↑Sun May 27, 2018 9:38 pm @Margaret Hayek I don't think it has that functionality right now, but there's an extension I think I can enable to create it.

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Cite

Does that look OK? If so, I'll work on enabling it.

Yep, that's exactly what I had in mind. If you could get it that would be great. Thanks.

Margaret Hayek wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 12:15 am

brimstoneSalad wrote: ↑Sun May 27, 2018 9:38 pm @Margaret Hayek I don't think it has that functionality right now, but there's an extension I think I can enable to create it.

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Cite

Does that look OK? If so, I'll work on enabling it.

Yep, that's exactly what I had in mind. If you could get it that would be great. Thanks.

OK, it should work now. That page ( https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Cite ) has instructions on the code and how to use it in the wiki.

brimstoneSalad wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 12:28 am
OK, it should work now. That page ( https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Cite ) has instructions on the code and how to use it in the wiki.

Great; thanks (I'll try it as soon as I have a chance)!

Here's a suggestion on a somewhat different (but still forum / website housekeeping) topic: why not include a link to the phil vegan wiki from the phil vegan forum (as well perhaps as the Patreon, Twitter, Youtube channel, etc. - much as there is a link to the phil vegan forum, and the Pateron, Twitter, etc., on the side-bar of the phil vegan wiki)? Or is there such a link and I just keep not seeing it?

That's a little more technically challenging, but I want to change the page header to include more links for social media (youtube isn't even linked to), so will definitely include a wiki link with it if it works/fits.