Philosophical Vegan Forum

miniboes wrote:

wfathiest wrote:The last time I tried to go vegan I was getting irrationally angry at everything. My roommate said good morning about the 5th day into my diet and I threw the first readily available object at him and freaked out. Ate one steak and I was back to being fat and happy.

The fats in meat and cheese are like heroin, you body will have trouble letting go of its addiction. A more gradual shift will probably not have these effects.

We're only just starting to do research on this topic and understand a little of what makes weight loss and metabolic conditions so difficult.

We're talking epigenetics, and complex cellular and system-wide interactions. When your metabolism starts to change, your body and hormones go crazy.

Fat cells, for example, when deprived send out chemical signals basically telling your brain that you're starving to death. Obviously it's not true, but fat calls are mindless little machines that just pump out the chemicals when they're forced to lose fat.

The heavier you are, the more extreme and sensitive to these signals. Hell, a lot of people would eat their own roommates with that kind of chemical warzone going on inside.

You went a little too healthy, too fast. If you slow it down a bit, it'll be tough, but not so much so that it will drive you into a rage.

Trying to quit grain and refined carbohydrates at the same time as quitting meat, and cheese? Wow.
That's a very tall order.

It's great as an end goal, but you'd have to have some kind of epic will power to do that without slaughtering a small village.

so what about cloned meat? If we start growing meat through cloning and stop farming cattle and killing animals would you eat meat again? would you find it morally bankrupt for people to eat meat then?

brimstoneSalad wrote:

miniboes wrote:

wfathiest wrote:The last time I tried to go vegan I was getting irrationally angry at everything. My roommate said good morning about the 5th day into my diet and I threw the first readily available object at him and freaked out. Ate one steak and I was back to being fat and happy.

The fats in meat and cheese are like heroin, you body will have trouble letting go of its addiction. A more gradual shift will probably not have these effects.

We're only just starting to do research on this topic and understand a little of what makes weight loss and metabolic conditions so difficult.

We're talking epigenetics, and complex cellular and system-wide interactions. When your metabolism starts to change, your body and hormones go crazy.

Fat cells, for example, when deprived send out chemical signals basically telling your brain that you're starving to death. Obviously it's not true, but fat calls are mindless little machines that just pump out the chemicals when they're forced to lose fat.

The heavier you are, the more extreme and sensitive to these signals. Hell, a lot of people would eat their own roommates with that kind of chemical warzone going on inside.

You went a little too healthy, too fast. If you slow it down a bit, it'll be tough, but not so much so that it will drive you into a rage.

Trying to quit grain and refined carbohydrates at the same time as quitting meat, and cheese? Wow.
That's a very tall order.

It's great as an end goal, but you'd have to have some kind of epic will power to do that without slaughtering a small village.

During that time I once told my roommate that I would eat his face while his god watched. I think because he removed my clothes from the dryer.

wfathiest wrote:so what about cloned meat? If we start growing meat through cloning and stop farming cattle and killing animals would you eat meat again? would you find it morally bankrupt for people to eat meat then?

No, that's fine. Mostly only the crazy vegans disagree with cloned meat. If it's not hurting animals, and it's more efficient (cloned meat isn't so environmentally harmful), then it's only a health issue, which IMO is people's own business if they want to eat something unhealthy (as long as it isn't hurting others).

Don't know if I'd eat it. I don't crave meat any more, and I would be worried about the health effects.

It may be possible to improve the health of cloned meat though, which will be interesting. They'd have to do a lot of changes (switching the kinds of fats, removing certain kinds of proteins and a few other substances). It's possible, though, since cell lines are easier to change (unlike making whole living animals healthier to eat, which is more science fiction than plausible).

Why did you want to quit grains anyway?

miniboes wrote:Why did you want to quit grains anyway?

I was quitting refined carbohydrates and sugars which meant most grains in the form of pasta/bread/rice. eat more heart healthy fats in their place like avocadoes and nuts. so that my body turned to burning that for fuel instead of carbs. it backfired.

wfathiest wrote: I was quitting refined carbohydrates and sugars which meant most grains in the form of pasta/bread/rice. eat more heart healthy fats in their place like avocadoes and nuts. so that my body turned to burning that for fuel instead of carbs. it backfired.

Maybe just try to switch for healthier grains. There are some good whole grain breads, even sprouted ones.

I'm not a fan of the crazy bible stuff on the bag, but there's one Called Ezekiel 4:9 which is pretty good. There are probably other brands which I'm not as familiar with.

Oats are also one of the healthiest grains there is. As long as you don't make them with a bunch of sugar (could choose fruit instead).

Black rice and Wild rice are both good, although more expensive than oats or multi-whole-grain bread.

Keeping up the carbs will keep you from going psychotic, and switching to better ones with more nutrition and fiber will help with gradual weight loss.

Also, non-white potatoes, especially sweet potatoes, are very good.

miniboes wrote:Also, non-white potatoes, especially sweet potatoes, are very good.

Actually, all potatoes are pretty decent. Sweet potatoes have a lot of extra antioxidants because of the color, but have a little much sugar, which makes them a little low in protein per 2000 calories, so if you want the lower sugar and the antioxidants, go for purple.

White Rice = 36.4
Sweet Potatoes = 44.7
White Potatoes = 54.3
Purple Potatoes = 57.1
Wild rice = 78.3

The color of potatoes doesn't make as big of a difference as it does for grains, where darker/more wild varieties can be twice as nutritious as the starchier hulled and cultivated ones.

brimstoneSalad wrote:

miniboes wrote:Also, non-white potatoes, especially sweet potatoes, are very good.

Actually, all potatoes are pretty decent. Sweet potatoes have a lot of extra antioxidants because of the color, but have a little much sugar, which makes them a little low in protein per 2000 calories, so if you want the lower sugar and the antioxidants, go for purple.

Contrary to white potatoes though, potatoes with colored flesh have a great antioxidant capacity and seem to work against many diet related diseases.
http://nutritionfacts.org/questions/wha ... st-potato/