Philosophical Vegan Forum

brimstoneSalad wrote: That only regulates a vague notion of how "natural", or generally how old, the chemical is. Either it's allowed, or it isn't. It doesn't say the chemical is safe, non-carcinogenic, vegan, etc.

"Organic" chemicals are carcinogenic at about the same rate man-made chemicals are. It's all just chemistry.
The problem is, organic farmers who chose to spray, have to spray a lot more to get the same effect.

Of course, there are some organic farmers who avoid all chemicals, and do no spraying at all, but there's no way to know which, and as far as commercial organic farms go (beyond family businesses) I doubt that's true of any, since it takes more human labor to weed and plant in a way to minimize pests. The issue is knowing what/if/how much they spray, since that aspect is not regulated.

If I had my own standard -- BrimstoneGanic? -- I'd ban all spraying of anything by default, permitting no assumptions that any ingredients are safe (particularly the untested "natural" ones, and the surfactants used in the sprays), and require the entire formula to be demonstrated to be safe by determining how much of each component is left on the plant, and evaluating each independently.
Farmers could only spray with water/alcohol and a few other safe solvents (if needed to dissolve it) and the active ingredients that have actually been tested.
Also, no animal feces or rendered corpses.

I'll sign the BrimstronGanic petition!

What is wrong with stuff grown in animal feces...?

What about mushrooms? Mushrooms grow the best in feces...!

Isn't our soil full of shit anyways..

No more b-12 issues with poo cakes either..

Vegans can have b-12 and eat it too


Also mushrooms grown under uv light contain vitamin d 3

WOW the vitamins that everyone says aren't in a vegan diet.

I do understand that shit from a carnivore could contain bacteria but shit from vegetarians animals like cow and horses should be fine because of the firefang, ay?

PrincessPeach wrote: What is wrong with stuff grown in animal feces...?

It subsidizes animal agriculture.

PrincessPeach wrote: What about mushrooms? Mushrooms grow the best in feces...!

Compost, or night soil would be fine too. People squick about human feces, but if it's properly composted it's safe.

PrincessPeach wrote: No more b-12 issues with poo cakes either..

Well, only if you eat them. It doesn't get absorbed into the plants.

brimstoneSalad wrote:

PrincessPeach wrote: No more b-12 issues with poo cakes ei.

ther.

Well, only if you eat them. It doesn't get absorbed into the plants.

The mushrooms absorb all the nutrients from a substrate so actually yes they do absorb the b-12 from the poo

Most button tops are grown in poo

PrincessPeach wrote: The mushrooms absorb all the nutrients from a substrate so actually yes they do absorb the b-12 from the poo

Most button tops are grown in poo

Oh, mushrooms.

Mushrooms absorb minerals, but as far as I know, they don't generally absorb a lot of vitamins they don't need. Maybe you'd get a concentration based on pure diffusion, but not higher than the same weight of substrate contains.

Mushrooms may have trace amounts of B-12 (it's not clear to me that it's from the substrate; I somehow doubt it is, probably from bacteria on the mushrooms), but they are not a reliable source. Not all mushrooms are equal, and even with the best sources (Shiitake are one of the best, apparently, according to a recent study) you'd need to eat over a half a pound of them a day. If you eat a *lot* of mushrooms, that could be viable, but since the amounts vary, it still might not be. It's risky.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4042564/
Less than a year ago.

In order to be safe, you'd have to have whatever mushrooms you're growing assayed. Much more expensive endeavor than a lifetime supply of supplements.
But then, alas, that IS also only an assay, and has not been proven in practice. See: http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/plant

brimstoneSalad wrote: Oh, mushrooms.

Mushrooms absorb minerals, but as far as I know, they don't generally absorb a lot of vitamins they don't need. Maybe you'd get a concentration based on pure diffusion, but not higher than the same weight of substrate contains.

More testing needs to be done on the nutrient content of mushrooms, they have their own kingdom you'd think people would catch on by now and realize that we need to eat a serving of mushrooms every day just like we need to eat servings of fruits vegetables grains seeds and herbs every day ...

brimstoneSalad wrote:
Mushrooms may have trace amounts of B-12 (it's not clear to me that it's from the substrate; I somehow doubt it is, probably from bacteria on the mushrooms), but they are not a reliable source. Not all mushrooms are equal, and even with the best sources (Shiitake are one of the best, apparently, according to a recent study) you'd need to eat over a half a pound of them a day. If you eat a *lot* of mushrooms, that could be viable, but since the amounts vary, it still might not be. It's risky.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4042564/
Less than a year ago.

In order to be safe, you'd have to have whatever mushrooms you're growing assayed. Much more expensive endeavor than a lifetime supply of supplements.
But then, alas, that IS also only an assay, and has not been proven in practice. See: http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/plant

There is some debate here because really once you learn how to grow mushrooms they never stop and it doesn't take much to grow a lifetime supply of mushrooms. They are super easy to grow dehydrate and store for years... mmmm yum

I would say that yes the substrate would make a difference because that is what the mycelium uses to feed the 'birth' of it's fruit.. Coffee grinds work as a great substrate too

The mycelium absorbs all the nutrients from its environment and pops out a mushroom when done..


It's crazy I've seen people grow mushrooms out of cigarette butts it's on shroomey look it up !
From my experience the substrate matters.

Here is my link and quote :
http://www.powerofmushrooms.com.au/heal ... -minerals/

It is often said that mushrooms have vitamin B12, a vitamin commonly found in animal foods. Ground-breaking research at the University of Western Sydney revealed that there are wide-ranging amounts of B12 in mushrooms in a bio-available form (meaning that it can be used by the body) (Koyyalamudi 2009).
Although mushrooms provide a modest amount of vitamin B12, they are not a major source of B12. A serve provides no more than 5% of the daily needs for this vitamin. However, this still makes the mushroom the only non-animal fresh food source of B12