Grains are not vegan debate

[brimstoneSalad]

I think "can't possibly go electric due to weight" is overstating it. I think I would go with "direct, long-haul flights almost certainly can't go electric because of weight unless there is an unlikely technological breakthrough".

Sure, though I think the point regarding redesigning planes is a significant one, and it's less likely to have two radically different kind of airplane. However, very small short distance prop planes might go electric.

I think we need to have a very high carbon tax on flights - and everything else- and the public should accept it because if the funds raise are dividended back to the people equally most people win since the majority of the flights are taken by the rich (I am a supporter of "fee and dividend").

Clearly this would lead to a reduction in flights and there is no political will for this at the moment but I think one day something has to change.

Sure, but without the political will that's unlikely. Regulation to slightly change the timing of flights and altitudes wouldn't necessarily mean fewer flights, or even much more expensive if at all. That's why I'm thinking we'll see that in five years.

[Jamie in Chile]

Let's hope you are right. Sorry to take this thread about food so off topic. I'm going to take a break now and see if Forests or anyone else wants to comment.

[Jamie in Chile]

Actually one more thing of relevance I forgot to mention I saw somewhere that rice can produce 11 million calories per acre and wheat only 4 million calories per acre. I think the source of this may have been the Wendover video on China's geography problem on you tube, although it is mostly not about this topic.

[Kaz1983]

Depends on what your definition of "vegan" is.

[brimstoneSalad]

Actually one more thing of relevance I forgot to mention I saw somewhere that rice can produce 11 million calories per acre and wheat only 4 million calories per acre. I think the source of this may have been the Wendover video on China's geography problem on you tube, although it is mostly not about this topic.

It is true that rice produces more calories per acre; thus the importance of modifying rice to reduce methane output. It would be a great food source to mitigate climate change if we could just tackle that.

[Jamie in Chile]

For example, let's say we regulate flights in the next 5 years to reduce contrails by 90%, which seems more than plausible based on existing technology and knowledge since it only takes minor altitude changes and changing the timing of flights

Replying to your post from months ago as I saw this article.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58769351

Looks like we are inching closer towards regulation of contrails.

[Graeme M]

Wow, I didn't know nuts were carbon negative. Is that for nuts in general? I assume some nuts are better than others (also the nuts where you scoop them instead of buying in a container is better still).

I am skeptical about this because the trees may lock up carbon but trees also change the albedo of the ground to absorb more heat than open cropland on average causing more warming.


[edited to switch less/more mistake]

Jamie in Chile, can you explain what you mean above? Are you saying that forests radiate more IR than croplands and if so do you have a reference?

[Jamie in Chile]

Sorry for very delayed response, I haven´t been on the forum lately

I think your statement above is correct

Trees absorb more heat ...and therefore re-emit more as IR...which is therefore absorbed more by atmosphere

Whereas open grasslands after tree cutting reflect more heat directly back into space as visible light.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.0608998104 is the most cited scientific paper
"Latitude-specific deforestation experiments indicate that afforestation projects in the tropics would be clearly beneficial in mitigating global-scale warming, but would be counterproductive if implemented at high latitudes and would offer only marginal benefits in temperate regions."

Many other papers have come to the same conclusion or similar. I´ve never seen one opposing it.

I collated all the research I found here https://www.veganforum.org/threads/plan ... ange.3649/
If you want a massive deep dive
Be warned, this is a huge rabbit hole and it gets more complicated the deeper you dig....hours and hours to fully understand it..probably not worth it but up to you

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2020 ... ate-change is the best generic easy to read article that I found on this topic

[FredVegrox]

In my indroduction thread brimstoneSalad mentioned rice farming being main culprit of methane which is obviously bad for climate change. This is a very valid point but is not usually raised by vegans.

Most vegans I know all consume grains and the main vegan proponents on YouTube (Vegan Gains, Joey Carbstrong) all heavily promote grain consumption. The Vegan Society and every vegan website I have read all promote or sell grain products. I have never come across a vegan who does not consume grains.

There are a lot of negative environmental problems with grain farming and harvesting. There are also ethical considerations for example combine harvesters killing mice. This has even been raised in the animal rights literature but is rarely discussed.

Before citing negative evidence for grains I would like to read from users why they eat grains and what positive evidence for veganism do they believe grains offer?

I happen to hardly ever get myself rice for my food, but this had nothing to do with such information being found. I just did not care for how rice gets stuck while I would eat it, more easily than most other things. Popcorn husks still beat it though. I don't use much corn. Either of those are used even by nonvegans, and non-vegetarians, more. I pretty much use whole grain, or for bread sometimes multigrain, and I get oatmeal. What is good about grains? Besides being a good source of fiber, I think I remember they are a good source of B vitamins, and they offer aminos that are not in most other vegan whole foods, and having whole food from plants is the healthiest possible way for eating, and I do practice that since learning that, and learning the ways I can do so.

If you think of pests and small animals that get killed in agriculture you can't show less of them are killed for feed used for animal agriculture. And, I don't think most nonvegans and non-vegetarians are not eating the same grains. I have said for a long time in my communication it is better if we grow our own food. It is best with growing it all among wildflowers and not in crops.