Philosophical Vegan Forum

Great info. Do you ever make juices? I am trying to figure out how to make a healthful juice while trying to avoid too many fruits. Blackberries would obviously be one ingredient but what else could be used?

I am aware that it is considered healthier to eat the whole fruit/vegetable rather than making a juice out of it but is that because people tend to throw away the healthful part of the fruit? I usually throw in whole apples or oranges into my Vitamix blender? Would the fruit still lose a significant amount of nutrition?

Jebus wrote:Great info. Do you ever make juices? I am trying to figure out how to make a healthful juice while trying to avoid too many fruits. Blackberries would obviously be one ingredient but what else could be used?

I am aware that it is considered healthier to eat the whole fruit/vegetable rather than making a juice out of it but is that because people tend to throw away the healthful part of the fruit? I usually throw in whole apples or oranges into my Vitamix blender? Would the fruit still lose a significant amount of nutrition?

What you're making is not a juice, but a smoothie. Very different. When juicing, all of the fiber is extracted, and only the liquids and some of the readily water soluble elements are taken (like the sugar).
It's fine to juice if you'll be using the fiber that's left over (like in baking -- I mentioned elsewhere how juicing waste fiber can make a pie crust).

In a vitamix smoothie, you're using the entire fruit/vegetable, and it's just being blended up, so it doesn't really lose anything.
Although that does release the cyanide from your apple seeds; in the very least, I'd seed the apples.
Cyanide isn't bad for you in small amounts, but if you're doing that a lot it might be a small issue.

Anyway, a good smoothie:

Greens. Nuts. Blackberries. Cocoa powder. Artificial sweetener if you need it. Probably some lemon or orange to make it more sour.

brimstoneSalad wrote:a good smoothie:

Greens. Nuts. Blackberries. Cocoa powder. Artificial sweetener if you need it. Probably some lemon or orange to make it more sour.

Thanks. I'll try that except it seems like it would be very thick. Do you put some water in it to make it more fluid?

Jebus wrote: Thanks. I'll try that except it seems like it would be very thick. Do you put some water in it to make it more fluid?

Greens and blackberries will contribute a lot of liquid. The nuts and cocoa powder would thicken things up. Just depends on your ratio, really.

If you had to water it down, you certainly could. I like thick smoothies.

Also optional: Pour into ice pop molds with sticks and put in the freezer. Good summer snack (and in that case, the thicker the better usually).

On an unrelated note, I PMed you.

Thanks. Which greens do you use?

Also, is there any truth to the claim that the smoothie will lose nutrition if not drunk immediately? I'd like to put it in a bottle and drink it while walking the dogs in the morning just to save some time.

On another note, do you agree that nutritional labels would make more sense if written as calorie percentages rather than portion sizes. With my new found knowledge I keep doing the math in terms of protein percentage per 100 calories.

Well, I usually put greens in solid food where the taste is more favorable (blended up as a dip, or as the liquid in bread). But I can say that anything with a mild taste would probably be alright.

Any Brassica veggie is going to be pretty healthy. Kale, collards, mustard greens. Purple cabbage (a little spicy sometimes).

I don't think there's any appreciable truth to that claim of rapid nutrient loss. Vegetables are losing nutrients from the time they're picked, and it might happen a little faster if they're blended up, but it seems like a lot of panic over nothing. I wouldn't leave it for a week or anything like that, but later in the day I can't imagine being a problem.

I'm afraid my information is limited on that front, though. I could be wrong, but I'd be really surprised if the nutrient loss thing isn't greatly exaggerated.

Jebus wrote: On another note, do you agree that nutritional labels would make more sense if written as calorie percentages rather than portion sizes. With my new found knowledge I keep doing the math in terms of protein percentage per 100 calories.

Absolutely, as in based on daily calories? That's a good idea, and it could be done.

The company packaging it would just have to set the "serving size" to some huge amount so that there are 2,000 calories per serving (and maybe a weird fraction of a serving per container), then could list out what you get for those calories, so you can tell at a glance what the food is high or low in.

It would make meat look really terrible in terms of protein next to vegetables (which it is).

brimstoneSalad wrote:It would make meat look really terrible in terms of protein next to vegetables (which it is).

I did a quick check and it seems like beef and chicken have a lot more protein per 100 calories than blackberries, lentils or any of the super foods mentioned earlier. The main weakness of these foods become apparent when looking at the complete lack of dietary fibers.

Jebus wrote: I did a quick check and it seems like beef and chicken have a lot more protein per 100 calories than blackberries, lentils or any of the super foods mentioned earlier. The main weakness of these foods become apparent when looking at the complete lack of dietary fibers.

Sorry, vegetables: Specifically green leafy stuff. As distinct from fruits, nuts, seeds, legumes.

Full fat cow meat has between about 100 - 125 grams of protein per 2k calories.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/bee ... cts/6208/2

Like that.

Whereas Kale has 175 grams of protein per 2k calories.
That's the kind of veggie I'm talking about.

Lentils have 155 grams of protein per 2k calories (lots of carbs too).
Soy beans are 164 (lots of fat).

Tempeh (which is soy cultured with a fungi) has 198 grams of protein per 2k calories.
And that's a whole cultured plant/fungus food -- the fungus has eaten some of the calories and made some extra protein for you.

Lean meat is another matter; the more fat that has been painstakingly cut off it, the higher the protein per calorie.
That's not a "whole food" though, and people don't really even like extremely lean meat.

Lean beef can be 217 grams of protein per 2k calorie, maybe more.

Tofu is 213.
Mustard greens are 215 (so close!).

It's hard to beat when you cut out all of the fat, because it's not as easy to cut the carbohydrates out of vegetables.

Textured vegetable protein (which is defatted soybean), is 300.
If the butcher gets to carefully cut the fat off the meat, I think we get to defat the soybeans too, right?
And it's high in fiber, unlike the meat.

If you wanted a whole food, like with tempeh, if you cultured the mustard greens with lactofermentation (bacteria rather than fungus), they should eat some of those calories and push the greens over lean meat as well. (Confirmed with one source, 222 grams of protein per 2k calories).

But microorganisms are better.

Spirulina is 400 grams of protein per 2k calories. (Bam!)
And in terms of fungi, nutritional yeast is a whopping 356.


Of course, there are also other reasons to prefer the vegetables to the meat, one of which is the type of protein (the high methionine).

brimstoneSalad wrote:

Jebus wrote: On another note, do you agree that nutritional labels would make more sense if written as calorie percentages rather than portion sizes. With my new found knowledge I keep doing the math in terms of protein percentage per 100 calories.

Absolutely, as in based on daily calories? That's a good idea, and it could be done.

I think I'm gonna make this a project. Perhaps I'll start with 25 of the most common foods. I want to make it as simple as possible so will only include the most important details such as protein, dietary fiber, and perhaps saturated fat. What else do you think should be included?

Also: Sprouting.

Sprouted lentils are apparently 171. The process of sprouting burns some calories in the seed.
Sprouted soybeans are 214 (not clear if this is better than tofu, but they are a whole food and higher fiber, so probably is).

Jebus wrote: I think I'm gonna make this a project. Perhaps I'll start with 25 of the most common foods. I want to make it as simple as possible so will only include the most important details such as protein, dietary fiber, and perhaps saturated fat. What else do you think should be included?

I'd want to check for methionine levels too, like saturated fat, it's something to avoid an excess of (although we need a little, it's hard to not get enough if eating high protein). And Omega 3:6 ratio.

Email me and we can discuss it more (in PM).