Philosophical Vegan Forum

FredVegrox wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:20 am

teo123 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:24 am

FredVegrox wrote:Corporations are ruining the environment, there is the issue that no one who could do so is fixing environmental issues.

My views have changed slightly since I opened this thread. I am not a radical anarchist anymore. I now think there are some good regulations. Probably any regulation that reduces the amount of antibiotics used in the egg industry is a good regulation. Radical anarchists seem to operate under the assumption that corporation that does some wildly unecological things will be boycotted. However, I don't see that happening with the egg industry. Most of the people don't boycott the intensive egg industry (which is where the vast majority of antibiotics today goes) because they are ignorant of the problem. Or at least the seriousness of the problem. Governments tend to at least not be that ignorant of global problems.

I still think that life in Somalia is slightly better than life in the USA, and that life in Croatia is a lot better than both.

I am not against regulations, anarchists are not often understood about that. There can be community regulations, government isn't needed for that. Communities do need to change, we should be focused on reaching others in our communities for change that is needed anyway.

I am against most regulations. To see just how damaging regulations can be, consider what has happened during the COVID-19 pandemic. You know how long it took Moderna to produce the first version of the vaccine after its genome was sequenced? The answer is: two weeks. That's right, production of the vaccine took two weeks. Then the regulations required blatantly useless testing on animals. And then the regulations, most of which were introduced after the Cutter Vaccine Incident, required three rounds of testing on humans. That's what took almost a year: regulations which make a tiny bit of sense for attenuated virus vaccines, but which arguably make no sense for RNA vaccines.
And I hear people say that the Trump administration is responsible for vaccine coming so soon. People who are saying that are delusional.

Libertarians often say that, had you invented Penicillin these days, it would probably be banned. @brimstoneSalad threatened to ban me for saying that, but it seems to me even now that that's true.

I don't like all the testing that is done, but really I don't give all the trust to government that is actually needed for accepting the vaccines are to be required of all people. I had concern for my own safety. What about those who died from symptoms shortly or right after getting vaccines? What about the elderly in the nursing homes? There isn't really discussion of it but many died there. It's just those with underlying conditions? Well, I could die of underlying conditions. Don't tell me I wouldn't have those, you are not me. I think distancing as far as I could manage has been much better for me, I prefer it to false assurance.

I think this has gone well off-topic to the thread subject, so I don't want to talk further about the vaccines.

FredVegrox wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:26 am I don't like all the testing that is done, but really I don't give all the trust to government that is actually needed for accepting the vaccines are to be required of all people. I had concern for my own safety. What about those who died from symptoms shortly or right after getting vaccines? What about the elderly in the nursing homes? There isn't really discussion of it but many died there. It's just those with underlying conditions? Well, I could die of underlying conditions. Don't tell me I wouldn't have those, you are not me. I think distancing as far as I could manage has been much better for me, I prefer it to false assurance.

I think this has gone well off-topic to the thread subject, so I don't want to talk further about the vaccines.

The point is that RNA vaccines are far safer than other types of vaccines, so it doesn't make sense to apply the same standards of safety to them as to the other vaccines. Attenuated virus vaccines can theoretically infect you, like in the Cutter Vaccine Incident. GMO vaccines such as Johnson&Johnson can theoretically do anything, even something worse than infection. Johnson&Johnson is a genetically modified monkey virus, containing countless proteins that COVID-19 doesn't. We think that monkey virus is harmless to humans, but it is plausible that it isn't. RNA vaccines cannot do anything the virus itself cannot, or even cause a side-effect at a rate higher than the virus itself.

That does not answer about there still being a risk in any case, as vulnerable people do suffer or still die right afterward. But the actual topic revolves around necessity of government. What is it that is necessary that only government makes possible that would not be possible for a society of people with any other institution otherwise? If we say to keep out forces of other governments that begs the question that there are governments while not justifying their existence. And what is desirable about invading a society without government? To take resources from them, possibly to use the people there. It is what we have with government. But what if they have great defense still? That does not take a government governing them.