Street Epistemology to make people Vegetarian/Vegan.

[DRB300]

Hi,

I am new here. I just subscribed after I saw a video on Youtube from the Vegan Atheist about aggression he received to touch on peoples cognitive dissonance, regarding acting with compassion in one situation, but be part of the genocidal meat system later in the evening when sitting at their dinner table. Going into forums with such a message, or bringing it up in debates often come at paying a social price or having to endure abuse. Now this is all fine, but is it effective? Does it change minds? Is it possible that when people see all the ridicule happening, that it even reinforces their idea of being oke? Does it strengthen them to go mock vegans/vegetarians themselves when they see such a post or remark in the future? Let me be clear. I loved the fact he went in and made the comment, it just made me wonder.

That brings me to the topic of this thread. I have recently picked up street epistemology:

* https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... fCnaO9ILBR

I am now doing this a bit on Twitter and some other forums when I like to engage. I have also made a list of questions that I grab when somebody is starting a conversation with me online about religion (if it is a theist). Rather than bombing such persons with facts or the lack of morality of their religion, I just ask Socratic questions. Non threatening, but thought provoking questions, so that people can reach their own conclusions.

Now I just had this idea when watching the video an hour ago or so, meaning I have not worked anything out, but I wanted to know if people think it is possible to maybe even create something similar to turn minds regarding eating meat and what not? At the same time, not making it such a "trooper" experience, going into forums or public life in general. I recognize the aggression and I wonder if a different approach would be both more enjoyable (important for long term motivation to keep engaging) and effective. Here is an example of a dialogue map (flowchart) regarding religion:

* https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw8nX6 ... ZvRk0/view

Is it possible to make something like this, though of course faith will not be the target of the Socratic questioning (at least I don't think that will be used to eat meat for many), but nevertheless a flowchart kind of thing aimed to use the Socratic method to sway minds to become vegetarian or vegan?

Cheers

[AlexanderVeganTheist]

I like the idea. Questioning people is a non-aggressive way of getting them to think through their own opinions.

My own experience with asking maieutic (Socratic) questions on internet forums is that people will tend to interpret them as retorical rather than maieutic questions and therefor just ignore them.

[DRB300]

I like the idea. Questioning people is a non-aggressive way of getting them to think through their own opinions.

My own experience with asking maieutic (Socratic) questions on internet forums is that people will tend to interpret them as retorical rather than maieutic questions and therefor just ignore them.

What if you start with an unconventional question like:

Where would you place yourself on a scale of 0 being "eating meat equals murder" to 100 being "eating meat is morally totally justified"?

Many eat meat and will more often than not say 100.

Then you answer with "wow, I never heard such a high number, what places you so high up the scale?" That might open up a discussion.

Or when somebody says 80, you say, "That is interesting, you seem to have reservations. What would make you go higher, or lower?" That could also open up a discussion.

Like, the number they come up with makes something very interesting about them that needs further examination and people love talking about themselves and feeling a bit special. That would change the angle from trying to push a view on them to, exploring this interesting position they take. So maybe starting with a scale can solve the rhetoric nature of Socratic questioning?

Now, I am not sure the scale I propose is the best one. I just wrote that down. Maybe there is a better scale.

[brimstoneSalad]

Welcome DRB,

I like Socratic questions, but the trick is the type. They have to be edgy enough to compel people to think about them (they need to trigger a little cognitive dissonance), but also not accusative or so strong that they put people off (as you said you want to avoid). It's a fine line.

I don't know about opinion questions like that ranking one to start things off. It may or may not work. The best thing to do is try it, and see what happens. I'd love to hear your experiences if you do. Please report back with your results (good or bad).

[AlexanderVeganTheist]

[What if you start with an unconventional question like:

Where would you place yourself on a scale of 0 being "eating meat equals murder" to 100 being "eating meat is morally totally justified"?

Many eat meat and will more often than not say 100.

Then you answer with "wow, I never heard such a high number, what places you so high up the scale?" That might open up a discussion.

Or when somebody says 80, you say, "That is interesting, you seem to have reservations. What would make you go higher, or lower?" That could also open up a discussion.

Like, the number they come up with makes something very interesting about them that needs further examination and people love talking about themselves and feeling a bit special. That would change the angle from trying to push a view on them to, exploring this interesting position they take. So maybe starting with a scale can solve the rhetoric nature of Socratic questioning?

Now, I am not sure the scale I propose is the best one. I just wrote that down. Maybe there is a better scale.

It's a nice idea, I think it's an alright question as an opener. But yeah just try it out for a bit - so are you actually going to do this in the street? And film it maybe?

One thing I would say thay 0 on the scale would have to be, eating meat is never morally justified, and 100 "always morally justified". Because when you phrase it with "always", their mind may be put in the direction of exceptions.

If indeed most meat eaters will say 100 %, then saying you've never heard such a high number before is basically a lie so I would just reply with a like "wow, all the way huh, no exceptions?"

[DRB300]

Welcome DRB,

Thank you

I like Socratic questions, but the trick is the type. They have to be edgy enough to compel people to think about them (they need to trigger a little cognitive dissonance), but also not accusative or so strong that they put people off (as you said you want to avoid). It's a fine line.

Yes and why I posted here, is because I do not have a good sense of where I would be working towards. Maybe I must be mastering some kind of counter apologetics to ask good questions that expose the weakness of a justification somebody gives to eat meat. That when he would see through it, his consistency would make him become vegetarian or vegan. I feel that it is wrong to eat animals, but it is harder to talk somebody out of it or in this case, question people out of eating animals.

I don't know about opinion questions like that ranking one to start things off. It may or may not work. The best thing to do is try it, and see what happens. I'd love to hear your experiences if you do. Please report back with your results (good or bad).

Sure. Meanwhile I will maybe drop by here and there and bounce off some ideas I picked up. By the way, is this thread not posted in the wrong section (i just realized). If this is a Vegan "project", is it maybe not wiser to put it in the Vegan section of the forum, rather than debate? I don't know if that is possible or the right thing to do.


Cheers

[DRB300]

It's a nice idea, I think it's an alright question as an opener. But yeah just try it out for a bit - so are you actually going to do this in the street? And film it maybe?

I first go into social media and forums (which went totally wrong today as I became totally militant about bull fighting and gave everybody a piece of my mind, rather than asking questions) and approach people on the internet to play around with questions and get to know good ones. I can also think longer about my questions and I am not a quick thinker so I like that about forums/social media. I can see myself one time moving it up and maybe do it on the street. I am not sure about filming. Maybe, if I think it is good enough. I am for now interested in getting like a clear idea of where I want to work towards and 20 or 30 questions that are really good. Something like that.

One thing I would say thay 0 on the scale would have to be, eating meat is never morally justified, and 100 "always morally justified". Because when you phrase it with "always", their mind may be put in the direction of exceptions.

If indeed most meat eaters will say 100 %, then saying you've never heard such a high number before is basically a lie so I would just reply with a like "wow, all the way huh, no exceptions?"

I love this. Thanks. Hope you don't mind I will come here and maybe bounce off some ideas from time to time.

Cheers

[brimstoneSalad]

That sounds great. And absolutely, please do come to bounce ideas. We'll give you feedback if we can.

[ZERZANZOOMSPARK]

hello I am new to this forum . Can anyone be coaxed into being vegan or anything else ever in the street by a stranger? I doubt that occurs no matter how cleverly presented .Don't mean to put you off trying .Science and facts alone leave me cold. I remember a meat eater turned me vegan from vegetarian by calling me a hypocrite for eating goats cheese in lanzarote while the goats slowly but surely ate the endemic flora i was such a fan of to the brink of extinction. Well that and the start of the gulf war that made me shudder with all that pointless human death and the mess they were about to make of the soil apart from anything else. So not just science. A complicated personal response that included anger disgust and embarrassment . How about you? Do you recall a combination moment like that ? anyway you Just got me thinking but not with any intent to discourage = zerzanzoomspark

[Jebus]

Can anyone be coaxed into being vegan or anything else ever in the street by a stranger? I doubt that occurs no matter how cleverly presented .

This is unlikely, but after hearing compelling arguments from five different vegans the meat eater just might change his ways. We have to keep informing. This is the only way.