How do you respond to these questions in one sentence?

[Jebus]

Why is cow milk bad for you?
Why are eggs bad for you?
Why is beef bad for you?
Why is fish bad for you?

[brimstoneSalad]

Why is fish bad for you?

No fiber, bioaccumulation of heavy metals and neurotoxins, excessive methionine in the protein, unnecessary dietary cholesterol (still a real issue despite claims to the contrary), too much choline, and additional carcinogens if cooked in certain ways.

Why is beef bad for you?

No fiber, huge amounts of saturated fat, excessive methionine in the protein, high carnitine content, too much choline, unnecessary dietary cholesterol, and additional carcinogens if cooked in certain ways.

Why are eggs bad for you?

No fiber; in the yolk, Enormous amounts of unnecessary dietary cholesterol, high saturated fat, and way too much choline; in the whites, excessive methionine in the protein, and lack of nutrients (almost no vitamins minerals etc. aside from protein).

Why is cow milk bad for you?

No fiber, huge amounts of extremely saturated fat (worse than lard), unnecessary dietary cholesterol, high sugar content, very high hormone content which promotes cancer growth and formation from precancerous growths in hormone sensitive cells, excessive methionine in the protein, and too much choline.

[Jebus]

Thanks for that.

I just did a quick Choline search and all the articles describe it as an essential nutrient that most people don't get enough of.

Also, please let me know how you would respond to someone who says that the cholesterol in fish is good (HDL) cholesterol.

[brimstoneSalad]

Thanks for that.

I just did a quick Choline search and all the articles describe it as an essential nutrient that most people don't get enough of.

Like methionine, you need some choline. But both methionine and choline are also found in plant products.

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/carniti ... onnection/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/eggs-ch ... nd-cancer/

The production of TMAO is causative. More carnitine or choline means more TMAO, which exacerbates heart disease.

TMAO alters cholesterol metabolism in the intestines, in the liver, and in artery wall. In the presence of TMAO, there is increased deposition of cholesterol in, and decreased removal of cholesterol from, peripheral cells such as those in the artery wall

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethyl ... lth_issues

The link to cancer for TMAO is less clear. As mentioned in the video, it may have to do with inflammation.
We know eggs cause cancer, but we just not 100% sure why. Choline, and TMAO, is a good guess.

It also looks like choline may actually be cancer food. Although this seems more speculative at the moment (as far as I know).

[Jebus]

OK thanks. I added another question to my last post while you were typing. Please have a look if you have time.

[brimstoneSalad]

Also, please let me know how you would respond to someone who says that the cholesterol in fish is good (HDL) cholesterol.

Fish is considered more heart healthy because of the high levels of Omega-3 (including DHA and EPA), not because it contains "good cholesterol". Higher levels of Omega-3 raise HDL. Maybe these people are confused?

I'm not aware of any information about dietary HDL vs LDL. Even assuming that's true (that fish has more HDL), that may or may not make it less harmful (I'm skeptical that dietary cholesterol maintains its original form), but it certainly doesn't make it helpful. We don't give people HDL pills to protect against heart disease.

We can (and should) get Omega-3 from other sources to provide the benefits without the drawbacks.

[Lightningman_42]

extremely saturated fat

Extremely saturated? As opposed to only somewhat saturated? What does this mean? What is it about fat that makes unsaturated healthy and saturated unhealthy?

[garrethdsouza]

extremely saturated fat

Extremely saturated? As opposed to only somewhat saturated? What does this mean? What is it about fat that makes unsaturated healthy and saturated unhealthy?

The general distinction is saturated vs unsaturated of which there are mono and poly (omega3/6/9) unsaturated fats. The type of saturated fat can make a difference eg small chain vs long chain saturated fats as different ones among them are linked to heart disease, but generally most sources high in saturated fat are high in the latter and hence unhealthy.

As for what basis is unsaturated healthier than saturated, several studies tried replacing the dietary saturated fat with poly unsaturated fat while not changing the total contribution of fats in the diet and found healthier outcomes. Mechanistically dietary saturated (but not unsaturated fat) raises serum LDL (bad cholesterol) which raises risk of heart disease. That's referred to as the lipid hypothesis.

For comprehensive sources, check:
1)https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturat ... ontroversy
In the healthy skepticism group, this is also pretty thorough; it also discusses the inherent biases in some of the reviews that may be inapparent to the uninformed:
2) https://m.facebook.com/groups/140170255 ... 7660622628

[brimstoneSalad]

extremely saturated fat

Extremely saturated? As opposed to only somewhat saturated? What does this mean? What is it about fat that makes unsaturated healthy and saturated unhealthy?

Fat from different sources has different ratios of saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fats.

For example, Butter, 100 grams:

81 g total fat, made from:
51 g saturated (BAD) (about 63%)
3 g Polyunsaturated fat (GOOD)
21 g Monounsaturated fat (OK)
3.3 g Trans Fat (VERY BAD)

I'm not entirely sure where the other grams went. Rounding errors, maybe. Or some other lipid.

Compare to Lard (which is also terrible for you, but not as terrible as butter/milk. Lard may or may not be worse than palm oil, listed later, due to the types of saturated fat):

Total Fat 100 g
Saturated fat 32 g (32%)
Polyunsaturated fat 11 g
Monounsaturated fat 41 g

Compare to Olive oil:

Total Fat 100 g
Saturated fat 14 g (only 14%, fairly decent)
Polyunsaturated fat 11 g
Monounsaturated fat 73 g

Compare to Palm oil:

Total Fat 100 g
Saturated fat 49 g (Terrible, 49%, milk/butter is worse)
Polyunsaturated fat 9 g
Monounsaturated fat 37 g


Dairy fat is probably the worst fat available on the planet, aside from partially hydrogenated oil, which is higher in transfat.
Coconut oil is better than dairy fat despite having a higher degree of saturation due to the type of saturated fat it contains (Lauric Acid), but it's nothing to brag about because it's still pretty bad in terms of its non-lauric-acid saturated fat content.


I think garrethdsouza addressed the other points?

[Lightningman_42]

That's a lot of helpful information so far. Thank you Garreth Dsouza and BrimstoneSalad.

Different question: on the topic of unhealthy foods (especially cows' milk), is there any validity (other than simply an observed correlation) to the claim that consuming cows' milk weakens bones? Is there any solid science confirming this notion; explaining that cows' milk does weaken bones, and how it does this?

I've heard claims that the animal protein within cows' milk acidifies the body and causes it to compensate by releasing calcium from the bones. This is most likely not true, but it does not change the fact that high milk consumption is correlated with high rates of (especially hip) bone fractures, and that countries with the lowest dairy consumption have the lowest rates of osteoporosis.

There's been decreasing validity as the research has come in. The study that really changed it all was the study using radioactive calcium isotopes. We've known for decades that if you eat a steak, all of a sudden you pee out all this calcium and say hey, where's the calcium coming from? Calcium is stored in our bones, so we must be peeing our bones down the toilet. It turns out if you actually radiolabel calcium in a meal, and you eat that steak, you get a big burst of calcium in urine. It turns out the calcium's radioactive. It's actually the calcium in your diet and not in your bones that you were peeing out. So, what protein does is actually increase calcium absorption. So by eating a steak you would actually get more calcium with whatever you were eating with that steak, and your body's like "whoa!, what's with all this calcium?" and just pees out the excess. So that gave the sense that there was this, you know... this kind of calcium recess with this loss of calcium in the urine cause and they thought it was this kind of buffering thing. That does not seem to be the case. Again, that doesn't mean that dairy products aren't bad for your bones but it just... this kind of sense that meat was the reason for the high rates of osteoporosis... has not panned out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ANCusV ... DV&index=3 (4:40-6:00)