Intelligence Squared Debate: Don't Eat Anything With A Face

[Humane Hominid]

Really quite surprised this hasn't ended up on VA's channel already.
http://youtu.be/OCcJq56ZMJg

It's a scored debate, and the vegans really kick ass in it.

[thebestofenergy]

33:22 Did he really say 'Plants are sentient beings'?
Then he goes on to say that their language is chemical.
Couldn't they get someone better than him?

Everytime I hear someone saying things like 'plants are sentient beings' his/her opinion immediately loses value to me.
It means that you don't even know what sentience means; and if you do, then you've never studied science, or you're selling lies.

[Volenta]

Thanks for sharing.

I laughed my ass off when that guy said he doesn't know whether vegetarianism causes mental disorder or mental disorder causes vegetarianism, and actually was serious about it.

Together with the 'plants are sentient'-guy it's not hard to tell who has the stronger case.

[Humane Hominid]

The thing I find most frustrating about the carnist side is that those two clowns are the best they could drum up. In a debate like this, you want both sides to bring their A-game, and the carnist side just falters right out of the gate.

I love how Salatin keeps contradicting himself, saying on the one hand that we should eat meat, because poor people; then, on the other, insists he wants meat to cost more money. Someone on the vegan side should have called him out on that one.

[thebestofenergy]

The thing I find most frustrating about the carnist side is that those two clowns are the best they could drum up. In a debate like this, you want both sides to bring their A-game, and the carnist side just falters right out of the gate.

I love how Salatin keeps contradicting himself, saying on the one hand that we should eat meat, because poor people; then, on the other, insists he wants meat to cost more money. Someone on the vegan side should have called him out on that one.

They should have called them out multiple times. When they said that plants are sentient, when they said that you kill more animals by being vegan, when they said that poor people need meat to survive, etc. but it's also true that they didn't have much time.
The guy that claimed that plants are sentient, literally said 'How do I know that when I put a carrot in my mouth it's not screaming?'. I'm very surprised and frustrated that the vegan side didn't say anything about it. Anyone who knows what sentience is and that you need a nervous system/neurons to feel pain/emotions could have easily destroyed him on that point.

EDIT:

I love how Salatin keeps contradicting himself, saying on the one hand that we should eat meat, because poor people; then, on the other, insists he wants meat to cost more money.

I didn't see that one. This probably shows that Salatin has been making the 'bagging the question' fallacy for his whole life on this topic (starting with the premise that eating meat was OK, then finding arguments for it; that would explain the contradiction, since usually points made to get to the conclusion you have predeterminated have contradictions).

[Neptual]

Watching the debate now, I'll give my input when it's finished.

[brimstoneSalad]

Based on what people have said, I'm not sure if I can stand to watch this video.

I saw the very beginning: a farmer and a Weston Price guy.

That much stupid, if the opposite side isn't really addressing the points (or isn't able to because of time) might be too painful.

This does go to show that carnists have no honest or intelligent arguments; it's in line with, or perhaps even worse than, creationism.