The amazeing athiest finely replies

[bobo0100]

If you haven't seen his response video to our own VA than check it out here ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGBosdGA0wQ

In summary his point was that there is something fundamentally difrent in human animals, and that difrence is a superior cognitive abilitys. Interestingly he stated that his views on the matter of factory farming have changed significantly scince he realieased the video. He also stated that his drawing a line between vegans and hippies was a joke, used to make fun at the vegans expense. He admitted to useing the burger scene in order to "piss people off". He mocked VA's opinion of him, mainly dew to the fact that he knows it and is not trying to avoid being volger in his videos. Altimitly his video le aves you with a compleatly difrent feeling than VA's did, what I mean by this is VA was being very objective merture and argumentative, while TJ was trying to joke around as he often does in the drunken peasants.

I apologise in advance if VA was planning to do something on this forum in regards to this video.

This will be a great place to share your views on the video.

[Volenta]

I don't know whether TheVeganAtheist is thinking about a rebuttal, but I want to address some points.

Very funny that all he can come up with is the cognitive abilities other animals lack—like that should be an indicator whether an animal should have the right to avoid pain, suffering and death. He could make the same case for mentally disabled human. The reason that people don't like the comparison with human beings is that the ignore the fact that we're not the only animals with wants and desires. Of course we're not the same, but that doesn't mean they have zero cognitive capabilities. And that's besides the point that cognition has nothing to do with the question whether we have the right to inflict pain onto them, the criteria should be whether they can suffer.

Another point he made was that domestication isn't always a bad thing, and gave dogs as example. I think also in this case he's wrong, given all the physical problems it has given and the overcrowded shelters. Sure if the dogs are well treated by their owners, it can have a nice life, but if you sum up all the bad and the good with regards to wellbeing, then I doubt the average dog is better off than a wolf.

He also said that his opinion has changed about factory farming. That of course makes me wonder whether he acts according to his believes. I'm pretty sure he doesn't, and still supports factory farming in practice.

[TheVeganAtheist]

I do plan on eventually responding to his rebuttal and address the points both of you have brought up. I find it saddening to hear people with functioning critical skills utterly fail to use them.
While TJ has said his stance has changed, many people watching his videos will/do agree with his reasoning. I see it all the time.

[bobo0100]

I don't know how a rebuttal of this video will go, the way TJ done his rebuttals it came out kinds messy. VA is clearly a man who loves structure, TJ's on the fly method will prove a difficult feet in regards to creating some structure.

One way VA could go with it is summing up TJ's arguments and rebutting them. This tactic is however risky as it may produce a video that seems boreing, or even worse one sided. He will also have to make sure he does not straw man TJ.

Another likely way this could go is by VA joining in one of the drunken peasants podcast's, I do not think this is the ideal sistuation for VA and certinly not one he will opt for.

My final propersition, and least favrite is not continuing the argument. This seems to be the sort of argument that will be a last speaker win's sort of thing. This is why I think it is the least ideal of all the propersition's for continuing the debate.

[Twizelby]

very disappointing. The biggest mistake I think he made is making the mistake of thinking that cognitive ability makes a difference in the ability to suffer. I think he should look at research on animal behavior and emotion. They can develop neurosis, experience depression, etc...

[Taman Shud]

Like or hate his style, sometimes you need someone who isn't going to keep the kid gloves on when dealing with theists. Sometimes ridicule can work just as effectively as rational discourse. I have seen some religious people get shocked out of their hardline religious belief's by being mocked or shown the true stupidity of their belief's. There is enough room for all kinds of Atheists and how they approach religious debates.

That being said, this particular situation, TJ hasn't really defended his video all that well and I find it a little amusing that he is actually inline with the religious where he agrees with them, a number of times, that human's are somewhat special and should be taken out of nature and treated as a special case... the special pleading fallacy.

[kamitis]

I got pretty lost in Amazing atheist arguments.

Amazing atheist argue animals not make choices what seem like saying while both animals and humans have evolved same way, animal brains somehow no work way human brains work and is only instinct based machines while nerves/legs/fingers ect. is used same way.
Another issue is that humans is not really capable prove animals is self-aware or not self-aware because we can basically just show them mirror and see if they realize it in mirror is him and there overall is lot of issues with this. While lot animals can realize they are looking to themselves at mirror some might have different self-aware level or form where we can't make human test successful or it might take longer time for animal to reason that it him in mirror and there probably is some who is not self-aware but not way our speciesism based culture think about it. Also it in no way prove animals is not capable make thinking/reasoned decisions, however more and more test about that animals can reason/choose in his culture/individual moral chooses over instincts of being hunger, also there is plenty of evidence of animals using complex language.

Human in heavy speciesism based culture have hard time think animals as being able think/use brain, reasoning and language as us or similar.
I never had been religious but it seem similar, we are made to believe what masses believe not basic common sense.

Even if animals is just instinct based machines what seem not realistic it seem still no any reason for using them (as sentient beings) for food, clothes or similar.

GL atheistvegan continuing discussion with him, i would lost patience for that for sure.

[PrincessPeach]

My brother watches "The Amazing Atheist" videos all the time, he even told me to watch his videos to change my perspective on veganism. "He really de-bunks everything, even that organic crap!"
He is just the perfect type of person the arrogant assholes can relate to, he really fuels them up!

It's funny because my brother even looks like him with but with brown hair same body type & "meh" I sit at home and jerk off while 'raiding' on WOW...


He said they just want to "eat sleep and have sex"

Factory farmed animals are artificially inseminated they don't get to fu-fill that desire, nor do they even eat food(corn) that would nutritionally sustain them. I don't know how sleeping in a pile of bile, piss, shit, blood, vomit all while being piled on top of another is a better quality of life than roaming free and wild...

::Wonders:: if he ever gets sexs.


nah doubt it

[thebestofenergy]

I sit at home and jerk off while 'raiding' on WOW...

That's an amazing life!
But yeah, TJ didn't really make a point there. He's just said that animals have lower cognitive capabilities than people. So what? Why would this matter?
No one was saying that animals should have the same rights as humans; they're fully sentient. Either he doesn't understand that, or he made a strawman out of VA's video.

Edit: Another thing. At a certain point he said that he considers himself ecologically minded. Doesn't he see his own hypocrisy?
You can't call yourself ecologically minded if you support one of the most (if not the most) environmentally destructive industry, considering that you could live perfectly fine without doing so.

[PrincessPeach]

I sit at home and jerk off while 'raiding' on WOW...

That's an amazing life!
But yeah, TJ didn't really make a point there. He's just said that animals have lower cognitive capabilities than people. So what? Why would this matter?
No one was saying that animals should have the same rights as humans; they're fully sentient. Either he doesn't understand that, or he made a strawman out of VA's video.

Edit: Another thing. At a certain point he said that he considers himself ecologically minded. Doesn't he see his own hypocrisy?
You can't call yourself ecologically minded if you support one of the most (if not the most) environmentally destructive industry, considering that you could live perfectly fine without doing so.

Haha I know it is but just can tell with him !

Tj is just fueled by too much cortisol from all the dead animals he eat's...
(cortisol~stress hormone)