Philosophical Vegan Forum

Hello everyone, so I've observed a phenomenom that confuses me, and I'd like you to share your insights with me.

So recently on Facebook I came across a post by "Tomorrow, Inshallah" which was shared on my feed by "HuffPost" (not sure what it is, maybe a subsidiary branch of Huffington Post?):

"Being Black and Muslim is beautiful." With a link to...

http://www.essence.com/love-sex/weddings/black-wedding-moment-day-hijabi-bride?xid=essence_socialflow_facebook&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000090

So Huffington Post (and probably also "HuffPost", whatever that is) seems to be a media outlet which promotes progressive social values; like anti-racism, women's rights, gay rights, respect for people of all religions, etc. It doesn't surprise me that they would try to promote kindness, tolerance, and respect towards people who happen to be Muslims. I can certainly understand this. I try my best to respect my fellow humans as much as I can, but not to an extent that would require that I respect harmful/unethical aspects of their ideologies. People are generally deserving of respect, but ideologies are not.

What I find disturbing about a "progressive media outlet" sharing this story is that they're not simply promoting respect for Muslims, but respect for Islam. It's obvious in the title, "Hijabi Bride And Her Tribe Slay The Day In These Flowing Gowns". They're promoting Muslim women wearing hijabs like this is something impressive, because...

...why? Women should have the right to wear whatever they want? Sure, but Islam, as far as I know, does not promote such a practice (women partly or fully covering their heads) as a matter of choice. The quran* actually makes it quite clear that women are inferior to men, and so it's disturbing to see "progressives" show support for the doctrines of Islam (rather than just respect for Muslims as people).

Why are some "progressives" so eager to show support for the doctrines of Islam?
Do they think that we should respect all religions? Do they believe it's necessary to respect religions (and all of the teachings that they entail) in order to respect the people who practice them? Are they quaking in fear at the thought of being branded an... {shudder}... ..."Islamophobe"? Or, a "racist" (even though Islam is not a race, nor are Muslims a race)?


*Islam is a religion which advocates the death penalty for atheists, apostates, homosexuals, trans-people, and adulterers. Not fornicators, though, they "only" get 100 lashes in public. It condones the practice of men beating up their wives (read verse 4:34). A man may divorce his wife without her permission, but if a woman wants a divorce then she must have her husband's permission. It insists that the testimony of a woman is only worth half that of a man, and that some rights which men have apply to women to a lesser degree.

As far as I can tell, none of the above is compatible with progressive social values. More like regressive social values.

I agree that Islam, strictly read, literally interpreted, and followed to the letter is terrible.
The Bible does the same sort of thing, women are property basically, most people don't read their scriptures; cherry picking is common across almost every religion.
However, because Islam came hundreds of years after the old testament, even the worst parts of it tend to be more progressive than Jewish and Christian scripture's worst parts. It's a mixed bag, though.

The Hijab has become something of a cultural symbol. Many modern Muslim women choose not to wear it. Sounds like they're saying "hey look at this beautiful cultural clothing which we aren't bigoted against".
I don't really see anything wrong with virtue signaling, as long as it's a positive virtue like tolerance that has good consequences socially. Aesthetics can reach some people who wouldn't be reached by reason.

However, despite how beautiful some hijabs may be, and how they can be both optional and expressions of culture in the West, we shouldn't forget that it's also a symbol of oppression in countries which mandate it. Context matters.

Lightningman_42 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2017 7:35 pmAre they quaking in fear at the thought of being branded an... {shudder}... ..."Islamophobe"? Or, a "racist"

Yes, precisely, but it goes beyond that; they want to be thought of as the opposite of a racist. They want others to think that they are sooo thoughtful and caring to others.

I was the stereotypical virtue-signalling, regressive leftist asshole in my late teens to early twenties. Didn't know much about Islam back then, so I just assumed anyone who was against mass immigration was some kind of morally inferior, racist pleb... and that I was some superior being -- a defender of the weak. Maajid Nawaz has correctly termed this phenomenon the "bigotry of low expectations", and it's kinda scary how prevalent the mindset is even in the highest ranks of Western institutions.

Lightningman_42 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2017 7:35 pm

So Huffington Post (and probably also "HuffPost", whatever that is) seems to be a media outlet which promotes progressive social values; like anti-racism, women's rights, gay rights, respect for people of all religions, etc. It doesn't surprise me that they would try to promote kindness, tolerance, and respect towards people who happen to be Muslims. I can certainly understand this.

I cannot.
I do not make allowances of respect for institution or their adherents that empower them to continue to act or promote immoral actions or thoughts. You cannot hate Hitler and love or respect the S.S. that did his dirty work.

As far as I can tell, none of the above is compatible with progressive social values. More like regressive social values.

I agree.

Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I.

I like that you are more eloquent and not as direct as I am.
I have been around for a bit and have become impatient with those who respect what they should not respect and with Christians who cannot form a moral argument to argue for their God which tell me they are following their genocidal son murdering God just for the gifts he promise and they do not care that his morals are satanic.

Regards
DL

Jebus wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2017 9:33 pm

Lightningman_42 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2017 7:35 pmAre they quaking in fear at the thought of being branded an... {shudder}... ..."Islamophobe"? Or, a "racist"

Yes, precisely, but it goes beyond that; they want to be thought of as the opposite of a racist. They want others to think that they are sooo thoughtful and caring to others.

I don't think I care what motivates people to fight evil, as long as they are fighting evil.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2017 6:33 pmI don't think I care what motivates people to fight evil, as long as they are fighting evil.

So you think SJWs are good for *ism? You don't think there are more *ists because of SJWs?

Jebus wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2017 9:59 pm

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2017 6:33 pmI don't think I care what motivates people to fight evil, as long as they are fighting evil.

So you think SJWs are good for *ism? You don't think there are more *ists because of SJWs?

Division produces a variety of thought. Do not fear listening to what others have to say, especially if they think they are fighting against some evil.

Hitler was a tyrant and so are the Gods to those foolish enough to believe in a Guy in the sky.

Would you condemn the capitalism and democratism that ended Hitler's reign?

I rather like that those SJW's were around. Aren't you?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2017 7:49 amDivision produces a variety of thought. Do not fear listening to what others have to say, especially if they think they are fighting against some evil.

Wat???

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2017 7:49 amHitler was a tyrant and so are the Gods to those foolish enough to believe in a Guy in the sky.

Wat???

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2017 7:49 amWould you condemn the capitalism and democratism that ended Hitler's reign?

These are not what ended Hitler's reign although they were characteristics of most of the countries that defeated Germany. However, I would argue Russia had the biggest part in Hitler's demise but I have no idea what any of that have to do with SJWs.

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2017 7:49 amI rather like that those SJW's were around. Aren't you?

SJWs are the reason Trump won the election. Reports of racism and violence against American muslims have been on the rise in the U.S. since the election. Something to think about.

Jebus wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2017 10:13 am

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2017 7:49 amDivision produces a variety of thought. Do not fear listening to what others have to say, especially if they think they are fighting against some evil.

Wat???

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2017 7:49 amHitler was a tyrant and so are the Gods to those foolish enough to believe in a Guy in the sky.

Wat???

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2017 7:49 amWould you condemn the capitalism and democratism that ended Hitler's reign?

These are not what ended Hitler's reign although they were characteristics of most of the countries that defeated Germany. However, I would argue Russia had the biggest part in Hitler's demise but I have no idea what any of that have to do with SJWs.

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2017 7:49 amI rather like that those SJW's were around. Aren't you?

SJWs are the reason Trump won the election. Reports of racism and violence against American muslims have been on the rise in the U.S. since the election. Something to think about.

Yes. We should all wonder why some Americans are fighting against a slave holding ideology, and encourage a non-violent repulsion of Muslim ideas that go against freedom and promote slavery.

More importantly, I wonder why all Americans are not demanding an end to open slavery in the U.S. as well as the rest of the world.

Regards
DL