Philosophical Vegan Forum

I haven't contributed to this forum in awhile, and there haven't been many interesting debates here that I've seen lately. We need more people to disagree with.

I was on the discord, and RedAppleGP said something about rape in factory farms (referring to artificial insemination). I questioned if this is actually rape, because I don't believe that cows would feel sexually violated during the experience. Miniboes asked if babies would feel sexually violated, and I thought this was a very good point, but said I would still consider rape of babies rape because it causes them emotional problems (sexually) later in life. The conversation was pretty reasonable until some other people came and... it started to devolve just a bit.

The people who I discussed this with after that, I believe, don't have accounts on this forum, so I don't think they'll see this. But if they do, that's fine...

What do you guys think? Is it rape for cows to be artificially inseminated?
To address some points that were brought up:

1) Having sex with a human corpse or braindead person is not rape either, because the person is no longer there; it is just a dead body.
2) Having sex with a sleeping or unconscious person is rape, because, despite that person not being conscious at the moment, they will return to consciousness and in the conscious state would consider it a sexual violation.
3) Raping a mentally challenged person is still rape, because mentally challenged people are aware enough to feel violated.
4) My argument isn't just based on the fact that the dictionary definition of rape includes "person". It's based on that I see rape as causing the victim to feel sexually violated.

I have a question. If having sex with a dead body that you come across doesn't qualify as rape, does killing people just to have sex with them considered rape?

Speaking of which, I have a friend who told me that he knows at kid that takes off of school/work on Ted Bundy's birthday.

RedAppleGP wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:25 pm I have a question. If having sex with a dead body that you come across doesn't qualify as rape, does killing people just to have sex with them considered rape?

Speaking of which, I have a friend who told me that he knows at kid that takes off of school/work on Ted Bundy's birthday.

No, I don't think it does.

EquALLity wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:04 pmIs it rape for cows to be artificially inseminated?

Of course not. The actions are different. The motives are different. Pretty much everything is different apart from the sperm and the vagina.

To address some points that were brought up:

EquALLity wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:04 pm1) Having sex with a human corpse or braindead person is not rape either, because the person is no longer there; it is just a dead body.

I agree. In fact, I think this should be considered a misdemeanor rather than a felony. If everyone in the world were a rational atheist I wouldn't consider it a crime at all.

EquALLity wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:04 pm2) Having sex with a sleeping or unconscious person is rape, because, despite that person not being conscious at the moment, they will return to consciousness and in the conscious state would consider it a sexual violation.

It would be rape. The victim would not necessarily consider it a sexual violation though. I doubt my wife would be traumatized if I had sex with her if she were drunk, and I doubt most bi/heterosexual women and bi/homosexual men would feel violated if they found out that Brad Pitt had put his penis inside them while they were sleeping. However as society can't leave that value judgment to the potential "rapist" it should be considered rape either way.

EquALLity wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:04 pm23) Raping a mentally challenged person is still rape, because mentally challenged people are aware enough to feel violated.

Are you suggesting that if the person were too mentally challenged to feel violated it would not be rape? I would consider it rape either way as it would be nearly impossible for the potential rapist to decide with certainty whether or not the victim would end up feeling traumatized.

EquALLity wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:04 pm23) My argument isn't just based on the fact that the dictionary definition of rape includes "person". It's based on that I see rape as causing the victim to feel sexually violated.

To me it has no importance whatsoever whether or not the victim is human or non human. If the sexual act is not consented to by all parties and has the potential to cause harm it should be considered a crime.

RedAppleGP wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:25 pm I have a question. If having sex with a dead body that you come across doesn't qualify as rape, does killing people just to have sex with them considered rape?

I don't know if a forensic pathologist can always determine with certainty if the rape took place before or after the murder. If it's clear that the death proceeded the "rape" It should be considered murder. I'm sure many countries have laws that would also consider it rape but in my opinion murder is murder regardless of the motive for the murder.

Jebus wrote:I agree. In fact, I think this should be considered a misdemeanor rather than a felony. If everyone in the world were a rational atheist I wouldn't consider it a crime at all.

I think it should be on the same level as thievery. I think a dead person's body should become the property of the close family members to that person... It's the body of their loved one, and they probably wouldn't want to see harm come to it, but it can't be rape as the person is gone.

It would be rape. The victim would not necessarily consider it a sexual violation though. I doubt my wife would be traumatized if I had sex with her if she were drunk, and I doubt most bi/heterosexual women and bi/homosexual men would feel violated if they found out that Brad Pitt had put his penis inside them while they were sleeping. However as society can't leave that value judgment to the potential "rapist" it should be considered rape either way.

I agree.

Are you suggesting that if the person were too mentally challenged to feel violated it would not be rape? I would consider it rape either way as it would be nearly impossible for the potential rapist to decide with certainty whether or not the victim would end up feeling traumatized.

I don't think there are people too mentally challenged to not feel violated by rape. But that's a good point anyway.

To me it has no importance whatsoever whether or not the victim is human or non human. If the sexual act is not consented to by all parties and has the potential to cause harm it should be considered a crime.

Technically, artificial insemination is a biologically sexual act, because it is the act of impregnating a cow. And a cow cannot consent to anything. But I don't believe it's rape, because I don't think cows perceive it in the sexual way that humans do.

I think Jebus covered it well.

The issue is more a practical/legal one, in terms of what should be considered rape in dealing with crime and punishment, as opposed to the actual outcome or nature of the act.

Neo, because their cows, I don't really think they give a $hit, and I've never head one complain.