Philosophical Vegan Forum

I do admin on a vegan Facebook page. A quack came in and convinced some people that a raw food diet is superior to which I responded:



xxxGroup Admin I definitely don't recommend a raw diet. Compared to a regular healthful plant based diet, the raw diet does no favors to your health, the animals, or the environment. Most of the pro raw food diet articles you will find lack any scientific backing.. In almost all cases, low temperature cooking increases the nutritional value of foods, and allows us to eat more efficient foods. You should definitely avoid frying with oil but for the sake of your health and the health of the environment, boiling and steaming are the best ways of preparing food.
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xxx No health benefits? Say what?
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xxxGroup Admin You'll have health benefits if you compare it to an American bacon and egg diet but I think most people here are interested in reaching a diet with optimal health benefits. The only vitamin or mineral that performs better when uncooked compared to cooked at low temperatures is Vitamin C and unless you are a sailor lost at sea, that is the last deficiency you need to be worrying about.
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xxx I thought most people here are for the health benefits, environment benefits and saving animal lives or the trend... But if you want to go one step forward towards the ideal human diet then a raw diet is what's next. You have to do some more research before bashing the diet?
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xxxGroup Admin OK, would you like to compare research and nutrition credentials? If not, perhaps just share one peer reviewed study with us that indicates that a 100% raw diet is superior to a diet of identical foods steamed, boiled, or cooked at lower temperatures.
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xxx Do you want to discuss actual results or do you want to discuss research that no one wants to invest in because it doesn't bring as much money as cooked food(vegan food)? Hmmm... you need to visit John Rose. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw9AjeiTEGY&feature=youtu.be
Raw Food VS Cooked Food
In this Video, John Rose takes a closer look at the difference…
YOUTUBE.COM
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xxxGroup Admin I would like to discuss actual results.
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xxx Then watch and follow this guy.
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xxxGroup Admin lol. give me a few minutes.
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xxxGroup Admin Meanwhile you can watch this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSNJcHBUZb0
Raw Food Diet Myths
Subscribe to Dr. Greger’s free nutrition newsletter at http://www.…
YOUTUBE.COM
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xxx It's late over here, we could take this to personal message instead of ruining this post... Have a good day or night.
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xxxNo thank you to the invitation. It's important that you learn the truth but it's even more important that everyone else reading this thread learns the truth.
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xxxGroup Admin Are you serious about that link or was it a joke?
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xxx I know the truth, it's just that you should know that eating cooked food is not better than eating it raw. 

The video you sent is inaccurate, as a vegan you should take B12 supplements regardless, so i'm not sure what he's talking about. 

Oh, i'm damn serious about John, just ignore the way he speaks... If you still don't understand what he's saying then you can keep your ignorant thoughts to yourself, because it is well known that a raw diet is the next step towards the optimal diet which is the fruitarian diet. You could always have a crack at the 80/10/10 Diet. You could check e-books as well like *JerichoSunfire Fruitarian Warriors Handbook* 

This guy might make sense to you. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBjUYddHrpY&index=136...
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xxxGroup Admin I base my knowledge on scientific research and nothing else. I would love to discuss and debate the available research about raw food diets but as both you and I know it won't take long before you look like a complete clown.

Mike Nayyar ^ That's what I mentioned earlier, people are not ready to invest thousands if not millions of dollars towards a diet that has no revenue to it, doesn't make much sense does it? Whereas a cooked vegan diet well, there's a lot to it, you can go to any "vegan" restaurant and have a look at the menu where a "raw vegan" doesn't need a special restaurant does he? You get the picture?

People like Dr. Douglas Graham who is already a nutrition expert who has nothing to invest on except a few hundred $ or maybe a few (minimal) thousands to publish the truth has already done it. 

Maybe i'm speaking with a brick wall, any bimbo can google "researches that shows cooked food is better than raw food experiment result or research" but you clearly do not get the picture, i'll try and check if they actually made any experiments or some actual research with "expensive equipments " within the last 5 years since i've clearly not googled it... I'll ask here and there if there any "actual" research just to satisfy a random know-it-all on the internet. 

Download the e-book I recommended. 

He says it right... "come and test me and tell me how it's happening" but who's dumb enough to invest on something with no revenue, aye? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE5Z1gKiD1s

See ya tomorrow.
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xxxGroup Admin Basically what you are saying is that nothing can be proved to your advantage unless you have research money backing what is advantageous to your business. You clearly have no understanding of how science works.
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xxx Well nobody is doing shit for free or for loss... that's what i'm saying.
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Jebus, I'm with you. The Dr. Greger video pretty much says it all. Anyone who seriously turns to John Rose as a source should definitely "consider the source", as I was forced to do recently myself. Not credible.

Typical conspiracy theory stuff.

1. There are raw food restaurants and packaged foods in health food stores, particularly date and nut based desserts, and their offerings are usually even more expensive than anything else there. There are also a number of raw protein powders available on the market even in ordinary grocery stores.

2. Even without a packaged product, there's also always somebody who is growing those plant foods (and usually industry advocacy organization) who's probably interested in funding a study. I remember a study Greger referenced once about dates was funded by some kind of date growers association. Literally everything you eat has a profit motive behind it and they fund studies for raw agricultural products.

3. Even completely free things get studied, like meditation (which is extremely difficult to sell since nobody has a patent and anybody can just download a program at home for free). Where does he think this money comes from?
People can and do research plant foods and even free exercises for the public good. Sure large studies take funding, but there's government funding for these things, and even university support. When something is interesting to the public and the university wants to make a name for itself, sometimes it will support the study itself just for reputation. No industry bias at all, just a revolutionary headline to put the university on the map. If there were any credibility to raw food, there are a number of researchers and universities who would jump at the next scientific revolution and achieve worldwide fame (and student enrollment as a consequence, for the university).

I was reading a related article: Understanding the threat of Listeria monocytogenes



This is something raw food has to offer (including uncooked frozen food).

A significant contrast with the relatively small number of Listeria associated cases were reported (358) however 126 resulted in death.

One about digestibility also: An unusual cause of small bowel obstruction in children: lentil soup bezoar

These findings highlight that such a bezoar could form in any normal child without predisposing factors. Even though the nutritional value of lentils cannot be denied, it is important to stress that they should not be eaten raw and they should be thoroughly cooked. The cooking time should be long enough that they become soft and easily digestible.

Bezoars are also caused by seeds, so that's another thing to be careful about eating too much of (and this happens to adults too).

Spices are also best cooked for food safety, something not as obvious there (like a pepper shaker), but outbreaks of food poisoning have occurred with those too.

cornivore wrote: ↑Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:23 am Spices are also best cooked for food safety, something not as obvious there (like a pepper shaker), but outbreaks of food poisoning have occurred with those too.

That's crazy, definitely not something I'd have thought of as raw. How common is that?

There's a table in this article which lists several outbreaks, and those appear to be happening more often in this century: Performance of Drying Technologies to Ensure Microbial Safety of Dried Fruits and Vegetables

It has to be noted that most of the reported outbreaks and recalls are from North America and Europe, probably due to higher awareness, enforced border controls, and better reporting systems. Thus, this information is probably the top of the iceberg of the actual incidence of microbial food safety issues and foodborne pathogens associated with dried fruits, vegetables, herbs, and spices worldwide.

More food safety news...

Thirteen infected with Hepatitis A virus from frozen strawberries

Cyclospora parasite cases in 5 states – some linked to McDonald’s Salads

Two dozen more confirmed in parasite outbreak linked to Del Monte

E. coli in canal water drew immediate attention from Yuma growers

Recalled Honey Smacks still on store shelves; more people sick

Yeah I'm getting a song stuck in my head... We want to multiply, are you gonna do it? Some like it hot, some like it haha. Well, it's kind of funny how people go on and on about raw food being pure, but it's like pure shit. MMM 'K, flick my bic... some like it hot, so let's turn up the heat 'til we fry.

Encore... 107 countries received frozen vegetables recalled for Listeria Nine dead (I don't think they cooked their frozen veggies).

Greenyard advised consumers to cook frozen products until they reach 70 degrees C and to continue to cook them at that temperature for at least two minutes.

Another company is recalling pasta salad. There's one food people might think of as pre-cooked, but that can be a mixture of cooked and raw ingredients. Besides, frozen vegetables are cooked (parboiled) before packaging, but things like listeria can still get into them through water on the packaging machinery, for instance. You can only be sure something was cooked adequately if it's hot off the stove (or microwave maybe, maybe not).