What causes most harm in the world? But is completely avoidable.

[Take5]

Hi folks

This is the topic for this coming Thursday's discussion/philosophy group. It's a pretty large subject, and hard to pin down to a single link. My take on it is that whatever contributes to GW/CG causes the most harm, and it's avoidable. So animal husbandry will come up - harm to the environment/animals/our own health, etc. All avoidable by taking our own actions and becoming vegan.

I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on this - I'll be armed with the fact sheets from Cowspiracy, etc, but other sources would be handy.

TIA.

[cornivore]

I think the one word answer would be "violence" (from a Jainism perspective).

[brimstoneSalad]

Well not all contributions to global warming are avoidable, think about developing countries which need infrastructure like clean water and power. There's a baseline of need that provides for human well being. That's where it's unfair to expect developing countries to cut emissions; they have children who need schools, people who live without toilets, etc. and all of that stuff takes energy and creates emissions.

What is certainly avoidable are the huge houses, the international vacations by plane, and of course animal products. I think we have to focus specifically on the luxuries that aren't needed for a healthy happy life.

[Take5]

Thanks, cornivore. I was looking for a succinct response, and yours is certainly that.

Thanks for pointing that out, brim. That's often over-looked.

I was able to expound at length on violence to the animals and the earth. I made the point (can't remember who came up with this, Earthling Ed, perhaps?) that if children were brought up to love all animals from birth, it would be difficult if not impossible for them to discriminate against other humans because of their colour/sexual orientation/gender, etc, in later life. This led to a discussion about whether humankind's seeming innate inclination towards violence was down to nature or nurture. All in all it was a fruitful topic - and one I will follow up in our next programme. Any suggestions as to how to proceed will be gratefully received.

Thinking about it, I would like to have a conversation with the group along Socratic lines, as expounded by James/Ed/Joey and others.

We have a Cube of Truth coming up this Saturday, and I invited the group to come and see what we do.

It's all about planting seeds, and I like to think I sowed a few today.

[brimstoneSalad]

That's great!

Speciesism can definitely be linked to racism in some ways, eliminating speciesism may not make racism impossible, but it could at least make it harder once we understand that "us and them" justifications aren't acceptable. Of course that doesn't stop people from appealing to pseudoscience to come up with differences between races worth discriminating over.

There were a few racist vegans we discussed here: wiki/index.php/Racism_in_Veganism

[PsYcHo]

This may not be the type of topic that gets a ton of attention, but one that causes a ton of harm for no reason- Lawn care.

It's pointless, has a HUGE environmental impact, is responsible for killing untold amounts of beneficial insects, and waste land that could be used for productive crops and beneficial plants. Billions of gallons of water going to keep a non productive plant looking "pretty", and massive amounts of carbon used to keep this pointless plant trimmed and neat looking.

[brimstoneSalad]

That's a good point @PsYcHo, lawn care is probably up there in terms of harm vs. avoidability.
It's 100% aesthetics and it's very easy to learn to enjoy a garden or more durable ground cover instead.

[carnap]

It's pointless, has a HUGE environmental impact, is responsible for killing untold amounts of beneficial insects, and waste land that could be used for productive crops and beneficial plants. Billions of gallons of water going to keep a non productive plant looking "pretty", and massive amounts of carbon used to keep this pointless plant trimmed and neat looking.

Well...its not an efficient use of resources but its not pointless. People wouldn't do it if it was pointless. Lawns are mostly about status, they are fairly expensive to maintain (either in cost or time) and as such having a lush well manicured lawn confers a certain status on the home owner.

As much as one can try, you'll never take the hominin out of humanity.

[cornivore]

Snapshot of a weed in the grass, it's one of those things that make me go hmm... so there's this green plant in the middle of brown grass, with flowers even, yet people decide that's a bad thing, and pull out those plants, only to dump all kinds of water or chemicals on the grass instead.

[brimstoneSalad]

Snapshot of a weed in the grass, it's one of those things that make me go hmm... so there's this green plant in the middle of brown grass, with flowers even, yet people decide that's a bad thing, and pull out those plants, only to dump all kinds of water or chemicals on the grass instead.

How dare that plant not be dependent on us for survival!