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Perfecting my diet

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:08 am
by miniboes
My parents avid carnivores, and although they respect my choice of being following a vegan diet they are concerned about the health aspects. They have not been calmed when I brought op the Harvard Nurses Health Study or anything the like. My mother spoke to my doctor recently and he basically said it's my choice but if they were really concerned we should go to a dietitian who can look at what I eat and spot any deficiencies. I am quite afraid he will tell me that I need to eat meat or fish or something. I really want to avoid this to get to remove my parent's doubts.

What do you guys recommend for me to make absolutely sure I get all the nutrients I need (aside from B12, for which I take a supplement)?

To give you an idea of what I eat in a day:
- A bowl of oatmeal with soy milk
- A couple of handfuls of nuts (often with raisins mixed in)
- A serving of leafy vegetables (broccoli, spinach)
- 1 glass of soy milk
- 2-4 liters of water
- 4-8 loafs of whole grain bread (with peanut butter/spinach)
- A serving of beans/carrots
- Fruit. A lot of fruit. Whatever's in fruit, I got enough of it.
So i'm pretty sure I got enough of all the vitamins. What I'm more concerned with is minerals, particularly zinc/iron. Thoughts?

Re: Perfecting my diet

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:45 am
by Volenta
Seems pretty good to me. You could add some pasta/rice/bread/other grainy things to your diners, if you need to get more calories. My day looks pretty similar, but I still sometimes struggle to get enough calories a day.

2-4 liter water a day is a lot. The recommendation is around 2 liter a day, and that includes the water that foods contain (lots of fruits and vegetables contain large amounts of water). Of course it's important to drink a lot in the summer and when being very active, but don't overdo it to avoid water intoxication (if it's not stretched out over the day very well).

If you're regularly eating legumes, grains, nuts and mushrooms, I wouldn't worry about zinc.
Also for iron: in particular found in legumes and nuts. If your still worried, you could eat apple butter that contains sugar beet juices* (because of the iron). That's also advised a lot for pregnant women.

A great indication whether you're getting enough nutrition/vitamin/minerals is using some program that calculates the nutritional values of your food for a week (or two):
- https://cronometer.com/
- https://mijn.voedingscentrum.nl/ (Dutch!)
- And probably a bunch of others.
It's pretty useful to see where you can do better.

*Rinse is a good one in the Netherlands

Re: Perfecting my diet

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:02 am
by miniboes
Volenta wrote:Seems pretty good to me. You could add some pasta/rice/bread/other grainy things to your diners, if you need to get more calories. My day looks pretty similar, but I still sometimes struggle to get enough calories a day.
Derp, forgot to add that I eat quite a lot of pasta/rice/potatoes every day at dinner too.
2-4 liter water a day is a lot. The recommendation is around 2 liter a day, and that includes the water that foods contain (lots of fruits and vegetables contain large amounts of water). Of course it's important to drink a lot in the summer and when being very active, but don't overdo it to avoid water intoxication (if it's not stretched out over the day very well).
Well, I know 2 liter is the recommended and I don't need to drink this much, but water seems to be the best way of avoiding snacking/doing stuff like biting my nails, scratching or whatever. It's something I can do with my hands and trick my body with. I'll read into water intoxication a bit though.
If you're regularly eating legumes, grains, nuts and mushrooms, I wouldn't worry about zinc.
Also for iron: in particular found in legumes and nuts. If your still worried, you could eat apple butter that contains sugar beet juices* (because of the iron). That's also advised a lot for pregnant women.
Alright, that's reassuring. Is adding beets to the diet not a better way of adding iron then?
A great indication whether you're getting enough nutrition/vitamin/minerals is using some program that calculates the nutritional values of your food for a week (or two):
- https://cronometer.com/
- https://mijn.voedingscentrum.nl/ (Dutch!)
- And probably a bunch of others.
It's pretty useful to see where you can do better.
Yeah, I've used voedingscentrum a lot in the past but got tired of it quickly. In the past it has been sponsored by Unilever and Campina, which makes me dubious. It always told me I didn't get enough calories, which is weird since I never sleep hungry and never feel unreasonably tired. Might have to do with my high fiber consumption. I'll try cronometer though.

Thanks!

Re: Perfecting my diet

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:35 am
by Volenta
miniboes wrote:Well, I know 2 liter is the recommended and I don't need to drink this much, but water seems to be the best way of avoiding snacking/doing stuff like biting my nails, scratching or whatever. It's something I can do with my hands and trick my body with.
Well, snacking isn't necessarily a problem, just eat the right things. The handful of nuts you mentioned is great for sneaking purposes. Also raw carrots can be great (and cheap).
miniboes wrote:Alright, that's reassuring. Is adding beets to the diet not a better way of adding iron then?
Not sure what you can do with sugar beets. They aren't particularly tasty so I've heard.
miniboes wrote:Yeah, I've used voedingscentrum a lot in the past but got tired of it quickly. In the past it has been sponsored by Unilever and Campina, which makes me dubious. It always told me I didn't get enough calories, which is weird since I never sleep hungry and never feel unreasonably tired. Might have to do with my high fiber consumption.
The amounts of nutrition/vitamins/minerals are reasonably good, that's what I care about. Their food guide pyramid is and other advises might be flawed though.

The reason I recommended it is also to show to your parents that you are in fact doing totally fine.

Re: Perfecting my diet

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:42 am
by brimstoneSalad
I guess you mean 4-8 slices of bread?

Looks pretty good, but eat more legumes and less fruit.
Or focus on non-sweet fruit. Fruit doesn't have anything particular in it that you need a lot of, so after a couple servings, you're kind of just loading up on sugar.

Re: Perfecting my diet

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:48 am
by Volenta
brimstoneSalad wrote:Or focus on non-sweet fruit. Fruit doesn't have anything particular in it that you need a lot of, so after a couple servings, you're kind of just loading up on sugar.
What kind of non-sweet fruits do you actually mean/recommend? I do eat a lots of bell peppers and also consume tomatoes pretty regularly (or is that already considered sweet?).

Re: Perfecting my diet

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:38 pm
by miniboes
brimstoneSalad wrote:I guess you mean 4-8 slices of bread?
Yup, don't know how that happened.
brimstoneSalad wrote:Looks pretty good, but eat more legumes and less fruit.
Well, I only really take the time to cook my food once a day as I spend most of my day in school. I'm not sure how to consume many legumes as unlike fruit as I don't like to consume them raw (not even sure if that's a healthy option) and they're not very convenient. Any suggestions?
Or focus on non-sweet fruit. Fruit doesn't have anything particular in it that you need a lot of, so after a couple servings, you're kind of just loading up on sugar
Well, antioxidants and fiber are pretty big but legumes have that too of course. Also, from what I've heard the sugars in fruit are not a big problem because they are accompanied by fiber and glucose is better processed by your body.
(One source I recall)

Could be wrong, nutrition people are known not to agree very well. He is generally very anti fructose though, so I have no reason to believe he's just trying to make sugar a non-issue or something.
Volenta wrote:Well, snacking isn't necessarily a problem, just eat the right things. The handful of nuts you mentioned is great for sneaking purposes. Also raw carrots can be great (and cheap).
I do eat nuts for that purpose but the price is an issue. It's a minor one, but the problem I have with carrots is that my jaw gets tired after eating a lot of them. I could try though.

To come back to your point of water intoxication, I read on wikipedia a woman once died of drinking 4 liters of water in 2 hours. I should probably watch out for that even though it says water intoxication is very rare. Thanks for notifying me, could be a real lifesaver :P

Re: Perfecting my diet

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:39 am
by brimstoneSalad
Volenta wrote: What kind of non-sweet fruits do you actually mean/recommend? I do eat a lots of bell peppers and also consume tomatoes pretty regularly (or is that already considered sweet?).
Peppers and tomatoes are great. They're not sweet, both lower calorie and high in vitamins, fiber, and if you eat enough of them (like dehydrated) even protein.


miniboes wrote: Well, I only really take the time to cook my food once a day as I spend most of my day in school. I'm not sure how to consume many legumes as unlike fruit as I don't like to consume them raw (not even sure if that's a healthy option) and they're not very convenient. Any suggestions?
Yes. Soak and boil first as normal. Then put them in the oven on fairly low, and you can make a sheet of crunchy beans. Great with chickpeas, but it works with others as well.
You can toss with a little oil, and put salt/spices on them before putting them in the oven to bake and dry out.
miniboes wrote:Also, from what I've heard the sugars in fruit are not a big problem because they are accompanied by fiber and glucose is better processed by your body.
It's not as bad from a blood-sugar spiking perspective (though really, still not good), but they also promote tooth decay, and the larger issue is the high calorie content with relatively low protein and other macronutrients. You can fill yourself up on sweet fruit and become malnourished.

Non-sweet fruit will not meet your calorie needs, so you will still be hungry.

If you only ate, for example, tomatoes, by the time you hit 2000 calories, you'd still be getting enough protein (in raw amount, not necessarily properly balanced amino acids) for the day.

TOMATO
Amount Per 1 medium whole (2-3/5" dia) (123 g)
Calories22
%Daily Value*
Total Fat0.2 g 0%
Saturated fat0 g 0%
Polyunsaturated fat0.1 g
Monounsaturated fat0 g
Cholesterol0 mg 0%
Sodium6.2 mg 0%
Potassium291.5 mg 8%
Total Carbohydrate4.8 g 2%
Dietary fiber1.5 g 6%
Sugar3.2 g
Protein1.1 g
(2,000 calories / 22) * 1.1 = 100 g

More than enough protein.

Do that math for any fruit. If you get a number less than 50g of protein in 2,000 calories, you're dealing with something that needs to be eaten in moderation, because it has the potential to displace other foods in your diet and lead to protein deficiency. If it's close, like 40-50, you don't have to worry as much. But once you reach under 20 or 30 grams of protein, it can become a serious issue.

Most whole foods have enough protein in them to make that impossible. Sweet fruit is an exception.

Compare to apples:

APPLE
Amount Per 1 medium (3" dia) (182 g)
Calories95
%Daily Value*
Total Fat0.3 g 0%
Saturated fat0.1 g 0%
Polyunsaturated fat0.1 g
Monounsaturated fat0 g
Cholesterol0 mg 0%
Sodium1.8 mg 0%
Potassium194.7 mg 6%
Total Carbohydrate25.1 g 8%
Dietary fiber4.4 g 18%
Sugar18.9 g
Protein0.5 g
(2,000 / 95) * 0.5 = 10.5g

At that amount of protein a day, you would waste away very quickly.

Many raw foodists encounter this problem when they eat too much sweet fruit. Some non-raw vegetarians and vegans also do. Sweet fruit just is not an adequate staple.

Let's say your diet is only half apples: That means you need to get more than 45 grams of protein from the other half of your diet, which is not as easy to do. It forces you to rely on much more concentrated sources of protein and makes dietary planning much harder and less flexible.

And if you're more active, or taller, it could mean you have to get closer to 100 grams of protein from the other half of your diet - and that's even more difficult.

It doesn't mean don't eat it, but just moderate your consumption more carefully.

If something gives you over 50 g of protein per 2,000 calories, then you don't really need to worry about it, eat as much as you want (provided it's a whole plant food, which of course doesn't apply to meats which can do that, but also load you up on saturated fat and cholesterol, among carcinogens and inadequate fiber).
miniboes wrote: I do eat nuts for that purpose but the price is an issue. It's a minor one, but the problem I have with carrots is that my jaw gets tired after eating a lot of them. I could try though.
Carrots: Grate them. Or slice them thin. It saves your jaw a lot of work.

Carrots are a little sweet, but come in at around 45g protein/2,000 calories Close enough, particularly since you'll burn a lot of those calories chewing/digesting them.
Just don't eat only carrots, but you don't really have to moderate your consumption.
A diet of even half carrots would probably be easy enough to fill in the gaps for, and chances are nobody is going to eat that many.

miniboes wrote: To come back to your point of water intoxication, I read on wikipedia a woman once died of drinking 4 liters of water in 2 hours. I should probably watch out for that even though it says water intoxication is very rare. Thanks for notifying me, could be a real lifesaver :P
It's not just that. Too much water depletes your body of water soluble vitamins.

Re: Perfecting my diet

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:14 am
by miniboes
Thanks for the info you both!

Re: Perfecting my diet

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:21 am
by Volenta
brimstoneSalad wrote:Yes. Soak and boil first as normal. Then put them in the oven on fairly low, and you can make a sheet of crunchy beans. Great with chickpeas, but it works with others as well.
You can toss with a little oil, and put salt/spices on them before putting them in the oven to bake and dry out.
Sounds great. Really want to try something else, other than always bread. Most alternative meals to take with you to work/school cost a lot of preparation time, and others are just not very tasty at room temperature. Putting beans in the oven doesn't require much attention while preparing.

But it just beans enough? (nutritionally and as a matter of taste) Or should you make an salad out of it? I mean, I normally take four slices of bread with me, but to replace it with a box full of beans...