Philosophical Vegan Forum

I think this will be a good topic, since I constantly see differing views from person to person, including those who see eye to eye on everything else.

I'm curious as to what you all think:

-Do/would you take care of an animal that cannot eat your diet, or would you rather give the animal to someone else who would not be bothered by it?

-If the animal is potentially capable of eating a vegan diet, would you try it on them? (For this one, I'm mainly focused on cats and dogs, since those both seem to have the potential and are the most debated. Animals like snakes are a little more ridiculous to think about when it comes to a vegan diet, and I would hope anyone would see that as abuse.)

-Do you use store bought food, or do you make it yourself? If it's a meat product, how do you go about making the -right- decision?

-How do you control flea issues?

-Do you have a good source for vegan pet care items (non food)?

Those are the ones just floating in my mind right now, but if you have anything to add, please do!

And, if you're curious, here's my list of companion animals:

I have two dogs (Stormy and Dixie) which are on a strict vegetarian diet. As of now, the products I tend to use for bathing and whatnot, are probably not all so much adherent to the vegan lifestyle (though I think some are), and I have not found proper alternatives. I do some shopping around probably about six months or so, especially since one of my ladies has a severe flea allergy. It's a never ending battle.

I have one cat (Kairi), who is on a "regular" diet. I buy Blue brand food at this point, and normally buy treats for her online in vegan formulas. Her litter is a mix of the plain old clay litter, and Blue's walnut litter. I mix mainly because I cannot afford to buy just Blue brand on its own. If I find a better brand of cat food, I will obviously switch to that, but I feel I am doing the best I can for her without moving her to a strict vegetarian diet. While I realize it is possible, I also realize there are a lot of risks dealing with kidney problems if I don't monitor it well enough. I don't feel comfortable preparing food for her, and I'm not sure I would be able to afford it at this point in my life. I do try to look things up on the topic on a regular basis.

In my house also resides a gerbil (Morrigan) and a snake (Gilbert), both of which adhere to their "standard" diets. I dislike having to give my snake rodents, but he has been in my life since before I went vegan, and I do care about him. Giving him to someone else would not change the fact that he would have to eat flesh in order to live.

All of my companions with the exception of the snake were rescue animals. (I did get Kairi as a kitten, but I decided that giving her a home would be a better fate than some of the people the "breeder" would find on Craigslist. I did not pay for her, she was given to me.)

itsund3rmykilt wrote:I think this will be a good topic, since I constantly see differing views from person to person, including those who see eye to eye on everything else.

I'm curious as to what you all think:

-Do/would you take care of an animal that cannot eat your diet, or would you rather give the animal to someone else who would not be bothered by it?

-If the animal is potentially capable of eating a vegan diet, would you try it on them? (For this one, I'm mainly focused on cats and dogs, since those both seem to have the potential and are the most debated. Animals like snakes are a little more ridiculous to think about when it comes to a vegan diet, and I would hope anyone would see that as abuse.)

-Do you use store bought food, or do you make it yourself? If it's a meat product, how do you go about making the -right- decision?

-How do you control flea issues?

-Do you have a good source for vegan pet care items (non food)?

1) I save abused dogs and take care of them, afterwards I eventually send them to a local pet store that I know will give these animals to good owners. Dogs and certain cats are domesticated animals and have been bred to live with humans so I see no problem with having them as pets. On the other hand snakes, spiders, lizards etc. have not been domesticated and bred to live with humans. Before I contradict myself by saying that they deserve to be live in the wild I'm also going to state that most dogs can survive by themselves in natural habitat I personally have a 2 year old
chihuahua that wouldn't survive a day outside (temperature, and raccoons will get to her before anything else does).

2) If I'm taking care of an animal that can live a vegan diet I would definitely feed it one. But since we're talking about cats and dogs, I can say for my dog no. I can't speak for cats since I've never taken care of one nor do I know the specifications of its diet. My dog has the teeth and intestines to eat and digest meat properly, dogs also have a nutritional requirement for eating meat (this would be easy to figure out considering they have wolves as ancestors).

3) I feed my dog store bought food, when it comes to meat though I usually go to a local food market and buy her some beef neck bones (they people who work there usually give them to me for free since apparently it tastes bad) which are quite large. I rarely buy these for her as this is a luxury (maybe once every 6-8 months I'll buy one).

4) I give my dog a bath every month and use the flea shampoo every 6 months. I also make sure she has her shots to prevent her from having them

5) I don't have one "source" but I make sure what I'm buying for her leashes, collars, etc. has no animal bi-products such as leather made out of them or in them.

I'm sorry this became so long and link heavy! I don't expect anyone to read all of the links, but they're there for those that haven't heard/aren't too sure about one thing or another.

On the other hoof snakes, spiders, lizards etc. have not been domesticated and bred to live with ponies.

I completely agree, with one exception-- albino animals that have specifically been bred for humans because they're "cool." The snake I have is an albino and would certainly not make it in the wild, since he would stick out like a sore thumb. It would be one thing if it randomly happened as an anomaly in the wild, but these poor creatures are specifically being bred that way.

2) If I'm taking care of an animal that can live a vegan diet I would definitely feed it one. But since we're talking about cats and dogs, I can say for my dog no. I can't speak for cats since I've never taken care of one nor do I know the specifications of its diet. My dog has the teeth and intestines to eat and digest meat properly, dogs also have a nutritional requirement for eating meat (this would be easy to figure out considering they have wolves as ancestors).

Cats are actually true carnivores, so I prefer to not risk them eating pure plant matter. I do know someone who has a perfectly healthy cat on a strict vegetarian diet, but it's just not for me.

Dogs, however, are in fact omnivores and can live on plant matter alone. I should have mentioned that the food I feed them is a commercial food, and not that I prepare it myself. I don't know why I slipped on that, or why I'm saying this now, but I feel like it's kind of important. The funny thing is, I find sites talking about dogs being able to live purely off of plant matter when looking up things about cats-- the only time I can find them saying that they ever NEED meat is when talking about protein (insert facepalm here for that one), and B12 and D (which come from the same arguments people like to give us). When I compare the food that I'm giving them now and what I used to give them, the only real difference is the animal product.

The problem with people feeding their dogs a strict vegetarian diet is that they lack the quality. Meat can make it easier, sure, but if you do it right, it is completely possible! (I hope you don't take this as me trying to change your feeding habits. Like I've said about my own cat, I don't want anyone to feel like they are risking their companion's health, and I certainly don't judge you for it. I switched them a few months ago myself.) For all I know, I might change their food... eventually... again. One of my ladies has allergies to tons of stuff it seems, so I'm constantly looking to better both of their lives. If we all want to get technical, they should have home made food, and not commercial. This is what is -best- for them. Commercial foods have destroyed our companions' diets.

All this being said, they do go to the vet, and they are healthy (minus the one's skin problems), so there's at least no worries there. =)

Also, this is more of a technicality, but just to clarify, do you mean that dogs have a common ancestor with wolves? Or at least not modern day wolves that we still see today? A lot of the problem with dogs, unfortunately, is that they've been so inbred by us they aren't very genetically related to wolves at this point. It's kind of sad and gross.

4) I give my dog a bath every month and use the flea shampoo every 6 months. I also make sure she has her shots to prevent her from having them

Shots?? Man, I wish we had those here! My vet has me use Sentinel for regular flea control and tells me to use Capstar to get rid of the current batch of fleas. It drives me crazy though because it makes me support Novartis, which is partially owned by Nestle. Are the shots cheaper? I'm kind of jealous. The main reason we still have fleas in my house though is because of the cat. I have to find flea stuff that works for her, and unfortunately Revolution isn't cheap either.

Here's a link for wolf stuff. And another linkylink about diet.
I'm kinda iffy about this one, but here.
"Ideal" food stuffs.
Same.
Vegetarian vet advice.

interesting question. I think self defense is perfectly reasonable justification for flea and tick meds. As far as companion animal food I would get vegan pet food and get the animals blood tested intermitently until I was sure that the dog was doing okay on vegan food. They do have gut's specifically designed for meat so that's something to consider. I like that on of the users said they get neck bones which is a secondary product of the meat industry.

Do/would you take care of an animal that cannot eat your diet, or would you rather give the animal to someone else who would not be bothered by it?

I would take care of such an animal, however I would not be a fan of feeding them something I know causes other animals harm.

-If the animal is potentially capable of eating a vegan diet, would you try it on them? (For this one, I'm mainly focused on cats and dogs, since those both seem to have the potential and are the most debated. Animals like snakes are a little more ridiculous to think about when it comes to a vegan diet, and I would hope anyone would see that as abuse.)

I would research and once I know its possible, i would attempt it (only if its safe). Im on the fence about feeding cats vegan food, but I know that feeding dogs is not a big issue.

Do you use store bought food, or do you ... decision?

I would buy store bought because i couldn't purchase dead animals and process it and cook it myself. Id try and find reviews and research the companies making the products.

How do you control flea issues?

washing the cat/dog daily (or more often) until the fleas are gone.


Im against pet ownership as an institution, and would only accept adoption to save an animal from a shelter or from certain death.

Oh god did you see the documentary on purebred animals? one of the winners in the dog show was so inbred it couldn't let out enough heat through panting so it had to sit on an ice pack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0I-bQxTVt4

Twizelby wrote:Oh god did you see the documentary on purebred animals? one of the winners in the dog show was so inbred it couldn't let out enough heat through panting so it had to sit on an ice pack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0I-bQxTVt4

Ugh. I have not seen that. Should I dare watch, or would my rage meter explode?

dan1073 wrote: 2) If I'm taking care of an animal that can live a vegan diet I would definitely feed it one. But since we're talking about cats and dogs, I can say for my dog no. I can't speak for cats since I've never taken care of one nor do I know the specifications of its diet. My dog has the teeth and intestines to eat and digest meat properly, dogs also have a nutritional requirement for eating meat (this would be easy to figure out considering they have wolves as ancestors).

Dan, you've made an appeal to nature fallacy:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-nature

It doesn't matter what dogs evolved from (a common ancestor with wolves, not modern wolves), or what they would eat more of in the wild. Health is an empirical matter, and has empirical answers that don't appeal to nature or history.

As others have said, dogs thrive (and some live longer) on a properly supplemented vegan diet. Vets regularly recommend this for older dogs with problems. Feeding a dog meat is not only cruel to the animals being unnecessarily killed for that food, but may limit your dog's health and longevity.

Please do some more research on the subject, for your dog's sake, and the farmed animals going into that food.

Cats are hard to feed vegan- this is true. Particularly male cats.

dan1073 wrote: when it comes to meat though I usually go to a local food market and buy her some beef neck bones (they people who work there usually give them to me for free since apparently it tastes bad) which are quite large. I rarely buy these for her as this is a luxury (maybe once every 6-8 months I'll buy one).

I consider freeganism almost morally identical to veganism when it's practiced correctly.
This is probably how I would feed a cat- a mix of vegan catfood, and bits and pieces of freegan meat.

Dumpster-dived or donated odds and ends from a butcher they can't sell.

I wouldn't do this for a dog, though, since it's not necessary, and gross (gross, not being an argument against doing it- but for why I wouldn't want to). I wouldn't judge anybody for feeding freegan meat to a dog in moderation, though- provided it's not harming the animal's health. I just wouldn't want to touch it.


Snakes are another issue; you can't get freegan mice- either they're alive, or they've been poisoned and rotting or something.
Sometimes snakes will eat pieces of meat; it should be possible to make a pseudo-mouse by bundling freegan organ meats and muscle meats. Nasty work though.
I don't think I would be up for it- I don't know if I have the stomach for it.


About pests: I consider this to be the same issue of the medical exemption. It's not practical to be infested. Fleas, ticks, and parasitic worms must die.