New to eating Vegan

[cherieb]

Hello

I switched to whole food plant based eating about 3 weeks and generally feeling really good about it. I'm 53, overweight, my blood sugar is creeping up each year and it was time for a change. Also after watching various documentaries, I don't want to contribute to animal suffering anymore. My diet has been mainly whole food for some years now, ie, I ate animal foods, fruit, veg, beans, grains - very little processed or fake foods. So the only real change has been eliminating the animal foods and greatly reduced processed oils.

I'm going to start right off with a question!

About 4 days ago, my knee swelled up like a balloon in an autoimmune type reaction. My knee is still greatly inflammed today - I've had to stay off of my feet for 4 days now. I was also very nauseous yesterday.

Wondering if these positive changes I've made are somehow contributing to a detox reaction?! Has anyone else had this type of experience?

It's frustrating that this is happening while I'm trying to do something good for myself, the environment and the animals.

[brimstoneSalad]

Welcome to the forum!

About 4 days ago, my knee swelled up like a balloon in an autoimmune type reaction (which I've had once or twice over the last couple of years seemingly stemming from a cellulitis infection I had a while back). My knee is still greatly inflammed today - I've had to stay off of my feet for 4 days now. I was also very nauseous yesterday.

Wondering if these positive changes I've made are somehow contributing to a detox reaction?! Has anyone else had this type of experience?

It's frustrating that this is happening while I'm trying to do something good for myself, the environment and the animals.

I'm sorry to hear that!

Detox is mostly a myth, like 99% of detox claims out there are false.
BUT if you are losing weight quickly then substances that have been stored in your fat tissue can be released and cause issues. Your cholesterol can spike too, due to weight loss.

These are short term issues, but you can reduce the intensity of symptoms by losing weight more slowly (by adding more calories, nuts can help, or a little oil like extra virgin olive oil or canola oil).

It sucks that getting healthier can some time make you feel worse. People can feel trapped being overweight. But if you take it slowly you'll get there.


The other possibility is allergy or intolerance. Have you added anything new to your diet?
The lack of meat wouldn't cause anything like that, but sometimes if you add a food you're not used it you might be allergic to it or have a gastrointestinal response due to sudden change.

The symptoms you described don't really sound like that, but if slowing down your weight loss doesn't help (or you're not currently losing weight) that's the most probable from what I know.

Otherwise, it might be an unfortunate coincidence. Sometimes lifestyle changes occur a little too late, I hope that's not the case. What has your doctor said about it?

I hope you feel better, happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability.

[cherieb]

Thanks for your reply. Very Interesting, but unfortunately, I am decidedly not losing much weight at all yet. Maybe 2 or 3 pounds over 3 weeks. Another frustration.

I do eat a little more pasta and bread since the switch but it's not like I was eating none and now I'm eating a lot. I went from eating a couple times a month to a couple times a week. I've wondered if that might be a factor. And I eat more legumes now and of course more veggies, but legumes and veggies were always a part of my diet - I just eat more now. Now that I think about it, tofu is a new addition.

It's very clear that the change in diet is what caused this flare up. I know my body well and of that I am certain.

I just realized something else. Last week or so I started intermittent fasting, ie, I eat whatever I'm going to eat between 12pm-8pm. The rest of the time I have water and herbal tea. This system is supposed to kick in fat burning. So even though the weight hasn't really been shifting much yet, maybe I am releasing fat, which is releasing toxins. Hmmm.....

Thanks for your insight. You might be on to something.

I am going to stay the course and see what happens.

[Jebus]

Welcome and congratulations to your diet change!

It's very clear that the change in diet is what caused this flare up.

If true that would be very strange and unusual.

Last week or so I started intermittent fasting, ie, I eat whatever I'm going to eat between 12pm-8pm. The rest of the time I have water and herbal tea. This system is supposed to kick in fat burning.

From what I've read and heard about time restricted eating, one is not supposed to drink anything besides water during the fast period. Even a bit of tea will defeat some of its whole purpose. You shouldn't assume that this will burn fat. You will presumable lose weight if you eat less, but research shows that most people don't eat less while doing time restricted eating. Research does however show that time restricted eating may increase muscle growth.

[brimstoneSalad]

I do eat a little more pasta and bread since the switch but it's not like I was eating none and now I'm eating a lot. I went from eating a couple times a month to a couple times a week.

If your macros have shifted, you may want to try a lower carb vegan diet. Changes in macros might have some effects.
Don't be afraid of trying out mock meats, which are a good way to cut down on carbs and still fill up. Your body might need time to adapt, but even so mock meats are probably much healthier than animal based meats; they're plant proteins, lower in saturated fat, etc.

Now that I think about it, tofu is a new addition.

That's unlikely to cause the problem, but you could test it out by switching to tempeh or a pea based mock meat. There are a few soy free options.
You would probably have known if you were allergic to soy before this, though.

I just realized something else. Last week or so I started intermittent fasting, ie, I eat whatever I'm going to eat between 12pm-8pm. The rest of the time I have water and herbal tea. This system is supposed to kick in fat burning. So even though the weight hasn't really been shifting much yet, maybe I am releasing fat, which is releasing toxins. Hmmm.....

Possibly, you might also be losing fat and retaining more fluids or something.
Careful with too much herbal tea. What kind is it? It could be a contributing factor itself.

There are a lot of variables here.

[cherieb]

@brimstoneSalad I am an herbalist and not at all worried about herbal teas. I have been drinking them for years. Nettles, Oatstraw, lemonbalm, raspberry leaf, red clover, and on and on and on. It seems to me vegans would benefit greatly from drinking nourishing herbal teas like these which are loaded with vitamins, minerals and trace minerals. So I'm not worried about that at all and it's nothing new for me.

The intermittent fasting I had only been doing for a week before the flare up happened, so I don't know if it was helping with weight loss as it was so new. But I am convinced at this point that it was the IF, not necessarily the vegan diet that caused the issue. Or possibly too much gluten. I am going to adjust both as I move forward.

If you can recommend any tasty mock meat brands I'd love to have suggestions

[cherieb]

@Jebus It may be strange and unusual, but we're all different. In fact this is not the first time I've made really positive dietary changes and had a negative physical reaction. It's frustrating but I'm working through it.

I did extensive research before starting Intermittent Fasting and I'd say about 95% of the advice out there suggests you can drink water, black coffee, green or herbal tea during your fasting hours. And this makes sense to me because the teas I drink have no calories so they don't break the fast. Although one source did say to avoid teas like ginger, which is a root/rhizome, ie a carb, so I only drink leaf teas like nettles and lemonbalm. We will see how it goes. My knee if finally calming down and I'm moving forward!

[brimstoneSalad]

I am going to adjust both as I move forward.

I hope that works for you.
And remember, if you have trouble still and need to back up a bit, there are more environmentally sustainable and ethical meat options like rope grown oysters and freegan meat.

Hopefully that won't be necessary for you, but I thought I should mention it.

Sometimes a sudden transition can be tougher and needs to be done more gradually (over a couple months with more gradual reduction), although this is usually only the case for digestive issues (like sudden increases in fiber). I've never heard of a quick change doing anything like inflammation.

If you can recommend any tasty mock meat brands I'd love to have suggestions

Beyond meat is good, although often hard to find. Most beyond meat is pea protein based.
Quorn has some new vegan options (some hand egg in them), they have a lot more in the U.K. than the U.S.. Those are mostly mycoprotein.
Gardein is usually pretty good, and easy to find. Gardein is mostly soy and gluten based (gluten holds it together and gives a good texture).

[Jebus]

I did extensive research before starting Intermittent Fasting and I'd say about 95% of the advice out there suggests you can drink water, black coffee, green or herbal tea during your fasting hours.

Keep in mind that the more precise term for what you are doing is "time restricted eating". As you mention, the consensus seems to be that it is ok to drink coffee or tea during intermittent fasting fasts (such as the 5:2 program). This is however not the case in time restricted eating. I recall Dr. Rhonda Patrick explaining this very well on the Joe Rogan podcast.

[Lightningman_42]

Hello Cherieb, welcome to the forum. I don't know much about "detox", but I was under the impression that it's mostly psuedoscience.