Why is it unethical to use leather derived from animals who are not killed for leather?

[catmanmugdho]

I am completely against killing animals for their skins. But what about skins of animals which died in natural causes, is it unethical to use their skins for products? And what about the skins of animals which are killed by meat industry? Because this leather is not contributing to slaughtering animals or supply-demand for meats. Skins of leather would otherwise go to waste or into the soil.

[Jebus]

I am completely against killing animals for their skins. But what about skins of animals which died in natural causes, is it unethical to use their skins for products?

The only issue I can think of is if someone sees and likes your clothes, doesn't know how you acquired it, and then goes out and purchases something similar.

And what about the skins of animals which are killed by meat industry? Because this leather is not contributing to slaughtering animals or supply-demand for meats. Skins of leather would otherwise go to waste or into the soil.

You would be increasing the profits of an unethical industry.

[brimstoneSalad]

And what about the skins of animals which are killed by meat industry? Because this leather is not contributing to slaughtering animals or supply-demand for meats. Skins of leather would otherwise go to waste or into the soil.

You would be increasing the profits of an unethical industry.

Right, which subsidizes meat and increases consumption at the lower price (more animals die).

Interestingly, we can say the same about soybean oil, because when you consume the oil you leave behind the protein which is used as animal feed (a crucial feed source) and subsidizes meat. In contrast with buying soy protein, which competes with the animal ag industry for materials and drives the price of meat up.

It would be interesting to look at how different consumer choices either subsidize or compete with animal agriculture, but that's hard to do and most effects are going to be very small. Leather is significant.

[Jamie in Chile]

A key question here would be whether the meat industry gets money for leather, or whether it gives it away. If the meat industry gets NO money at all for the leather, then it is fair to say that using the leather doesn't cause suffering directly (except a little bit in the type of way Jebus mentioned above).

However if the meat industry gets even as little as 5% of its money from leather and 95% from meat (I'm simplifying here, in reality there may be other animal parts sold e.g. bone) then I would argue that you are adding to demand and you are increasing suffering by giving the meat company extra profits to reinvest, the ability to sell more by lowering the price (as mentioned above) or maybe that 5% has kept a few companies from going bust.

I saw a movie, and it may have been Earthlings, where they also mentioned that leather cows and meat cows are different cows, so some cows are actually bred for leather as the major product in some cases! And they showed the India case. However, I could be remembering wrong, can anyone confirm or deny this?

In the case of animals that died of natural causes I don't see much of a moral issue, a minor one at best. But I doubt there is any leather for sale of animals that died of natural causes so unless you can point to where you would actually buy this it's a moot point.

[Lay Vegan]

A key question here would be whether the meat industry gets money for leather, or whether it gives it away. If the meat industry gets NO money at all for the leather, then it is fair to say that using the leather doesn't cause suffering directly (except a little bit in the type of way Jebus mentioned above).

It's a mutual benefit, but leather production is a far more lucrative business on its own. Animals skins are generally profitable, whereas meat is not always so (typically as with exotic animals).

At least in Western countries, there isn’t a high demand for crocodile and snake cuisine. So yes, revenue from their skins only makes their meat production more sustainable.

Even with respect to dairy cows, you’re kidding yourself if you believe farmers are selling their skins out of some altruistic desire to minimize waste. The reality is that cowhide generates massive income (billions) for factory farmers, which helps to keep meat cheap (thus increasing consumption). i.e., purchasing leather means helping the meat industry remain solvent.

I saw a movie, and it may have been Earthlings, where they also mentioned that leather cows and meat cows are different cows, so some cows are actually bred for leather as the major product in some cases! And they showed the India case. However, I could be remembering wrong, can anyone confirm or deny this?

That seems rather dubious. At least in the US, most leather comes from dairy cows who are unable to produce milk at a level that is profitable. I think India forbids the slaughter of cows, so they just have them exported to be slaughtered for leather. That's not the same scenario as Indian farmers raising cattle exclusively for their hide.

[Minos]

A key question here would be whether the meat industry gets money for leather, or whether it gives it away. If the meat industry gets NO money at all for the leather, then it is fair to say that using the leather doesn't cause suffering directly (except a little bit in the type of way Jebus mentioned above).

More accurate question would be how much money they get. There are more uses for skins than fashion industry, for example gelatin which is then used in food, photography, pharmaceutical and cosmetic industries.

[fredericlavender]

I own quite a few things which contain some leather, all before I went vegan like clothes, shoes, sofa etc. (I was a vegetarian for 33 years and now vegan of 2 years)
I think the biggest thing for me was not to be wasteful in throwing out old just because I turned vegan. I thought it was a waste of money spent, the impact on the environment by going to landfill and if I decided to give them away, I couldn't afford new ones!

So with the topic of discussion, I personally would feel ethically wrong to buy a new item of clothing that has come from an animal whether it was killed or died of natural causes. I have recently had to buy new clothes because I have grown out of my old ones (mainly because I weight train for mass) and they no longer fit - https://veenofs.com/collections/mens-vegan-t-shirts. With regards to the sale of cowhide, this is a lucrative industry and I don't know how the drop in beef demands with more and more people going vegan will affect this.

[fredericlavender]

I am completely against killing animals for their skins. But what about skins of animals which died in natural causes, is it unethical to use their skins for products?

The only issue I can think of is if someone sees and likes your clothes, doesn't know how you acquired it, and then goes out and purchases something similar.

And what about the skins of animals which are killed by meat industry? Because this leather is not contributing to slaughtering animals or supply-demand for meats. Skins of leather would otherwise go to waste or into the soil.

You would be increasing the profits of an unethical industry.

Nice views on this. On a side note, you need to add Game Changers to your list of movies in your signature