Philosophical Vegan Forum

It seems to me that the scientists are so aware of the possibility of ridicule from their colleagues, that they are too quick to dismiss the possibility that these UAPs are actually of alien technology.

Well-known sceptic Mick West was on CNN saying that these UAPs were likely large birds, weather balloons, and airplanes. As if well-trained navy pilots are not able to identify such.

Laurence Krauss, who is one of the smartest people on the planet, wrote this piece of shit: https://quillette.com/2021/07/07/whatev ... dwtYpgs9dA

Why would someone as smart as Krauss assume that curious aliens would put biological beings in their spaceships? It seems obvious to me that any intelligent civilization would use robots to satisfy their curiosity of what's going on in the galaxy. And no, Mr. Krauss, you don't need to travel close to the speed of light. You only need millions of years.

Finally, Mr. Krauss, it is ignorant to believe that the aliens would target our planet as a unique place to explore. I think it is far more likely that a (Kardashev) level 2 or 3 civilization would mass produce millions of robotic spacecrafts and send them out to the corners of the galaxy and report back.

I am not saying that we should assume these UAPs to be of alien origin. I am saying that smart people should acknowledge it as a possibility.

Jebus wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:29 am Laurence Krauss, who is one of the smartest people on the planet, wrote this piece of shit: https://quillette.com/2021/07/07/whatev ... dwtYpgs9dA

Why would someone as smart as Krauss assume that curious aliens would put biological beings in their spaceships? It seems obvious to me that any intelligent civilization would use robots to satisfy their curiosity of what's going on in the galaxy. And no, Mr. Krauss, you don't need to travel close to the speed of light. You only need millions of years.

Finally, Mr. Krauss, it is ignorant to believe that the aliens would target our planet as a unique place to explore. I think it is far more likely that a (Kardashev) level 2 or 3 civilization would mass produce millions of robotic spacecrafts and send them out to the corners of the galaxy and report back.

Fair point.

On a slightly different note, in the article you linked to, Krauss writes: "Given a universe full of 100 billion galaxies, each containing perhaps 100 billion stars, and given that most stars have solar systems around them, and given that life on Earth evolved about as soon as the laws of physics and chemistry allowed, with just water, sunlight, and organic materials—all of which exist in abundance throughout the galaxy—I expect that life exists in profusion throughout the galaxy."

That is a common assumption among many famous cosmologists. It annoys me that these obviously intelligent people disregard one extremely important factor - i.e. the probability of life, and especially intelligent life, of ever emerging.

The fact that life developed fairly quickly on earth is not evidence of anything. It's just one data point. Considering the complexity of even the simplest bacterium, I would argue that the low probability of life ever evolving could far outweigh any amount of zeros you add to the number of possible life sustaining planets.

DrDavid wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:21 pmThat is a common assumption among many famous cosmologists. It annoys me that these obviously intelligent people disregard one extremely important factor - i.e. the probability of life, and especially intelligent life, of ever emerging.

The fact that life developed fairly quickly on earth is not evidence of anything. It's just one data point. Considering the complexity of even the simplest bacterium, I would argue that the low probability of life ever evolving could far outweigh any amount of zeros you add to the number of possible life sustaining planets.

I think that is the only "if." Beyond that initial "if" we can make a few likely assumptions.

Assumption 1. Once a civilization achieves the technological know-how to explore the galaxy, they would be likely to do so for the following three reasons:
1. Curiosity.
2. To be aware of other civilizations that could possibly become threats.
3. To find places they could move to once their own planet becomes inhabitable.

Assumption 2. They would be unlikely to stop exploring until every planet in our galaxy, and neighboring dwarf galaxies, has been explored. If they were able to travel at 20% of the speed of light, it would take around a million years to cover the whole galaxy.

Assumption 3. Once reaching a planet able of supporting life, they would never leave. Given the vast distances, once the message "there are only bugs on this planet" reaches the home planet intelligent life could have evolved. Most likely guess is that they would hide in the deep oceans. Keep in mind, these spacecraft (and their robotics) would continue to operate for millions of years after their creators went extinct. They would continue to evade, record, and do whatever else they were programmed to do.

Conclusion: If there ever were a highly intelligent civilization in our galaxy, their spacecraft would be highly likely to be here.