Philosophical Vegan Forum

Hi, I'm newly transitioning to a whole foods plant based. I come from low carb/keto, though I have been making moves in this direction for some time, so not completely from beef and butter . Unfortunately I seem to have taken on board a lot of bad dietary information (possibly, I don't think low carb is per se terrible). I joined to seek good advice on making this transition. Can't promise I'll stay vegan, I might gravitate more toward the mediterranean diet. My reasons are primarily health. Environment is important, ethics and factory farming, while important, are slightly less so. Thanks

Hello automated hero! Sorry for the delay in approving your post.
Why do you say that ethics are lesser matters? And what prompted you originally to transition from Keto to plant based?

Red wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 5:22 pm Hello automated hero! Sorry for the delay in approving your post.
Why do you say that ethics are lesser matters? And what prompted you originally to transition from Keto to plant based?

I'm speaking only for me. So my main concern is health, all i'm saying is that is more of a priority than the ethics of veganism. Not that ethics aren't important.

Health is also the reason to transition, and to have a more broad array of healthy foods to eat. such as legumes and grains.

automated hero wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 6:32 am I'm speaking only for me. So my main concern is health, all i'm saying is that is more of a priority than the ethics of veganism. Not that ethics aren't important.

I'd like to discuss that with you in another thread. Many people who go vegan for health reasons tend to become ethical vegans later on.

automated hero wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 6:32 amHealth is also the reason to transition, and to have a more broad array of healthy foods to eat. such as legumes and grains.

That is true; It's a huge myth that vegans don't have any great food to eat, especially in this day and age.

Red wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 11:49 am

automated hero wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 6:32 am I'm speaking only for me. So my main concern is health, all i'm saying is that is more of a priority than the ethics of veganism. Not that ethics aren't important.

I'd like to discuss that with you in another thread. Many people who go vegan for health reasons tend to become ethical vegans later on.

automated hero wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 6:32 amHealth is also the reason to transition, and to have a more broad array of healthy foods to eat. such as legumes and grains.

That is true; It's a huge myth that vegans don't have any great food to eat, especially in this day and age.

I'm happy to discuss my positions as they currently stand, but I have more pressing concerns regarding this diet at the moment, hence my question in the Vegan forum re: satiety.

Welcome!

Being actually in ketosis is probably not healthy. A key reason to be wary of this is that animals (including the human animal) evolve to NOT go into ketosis when their ancestral diets are low in carbohydrates. This could be an efficiency matter, but given the lack of evidence behind this extreme macronutrient strategy it would be wise to avoid it.

There are some stronger argument for low-carb for some people, particularly reduced intake of certain sugars.

However, It's an interesting point to note that low carb diets in fact must be virtually vegan to follow science based health guidelines. Since they're mainly fat based, and plant fat already has some percentage saturation, it's virtually impossible to integrate any animal fats without breaking the bank.

Higher carb diets have more leeway for saturated fat due to being lower in total fat, but are mostly limited to polyunsaturated plant fats and at most certain wild caught (not farmed) fish that have essential amino acids or else become deficient due to the low intake

While it's not consensus in health messaging (there are other things that are more critical like saturated fat intake), there's also overwhelming mechanistic and animal evidence (and a fair amount of human epidemiological evidence) that the same concept applies to high protein consumption. Any high protein diet must by necessity avoid animal protein sources to limit methionine and other proteins that fuel cancer growth and otherwise reduce life expectancy through mechanism like oxidative stresses. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7911310/

The bottom line is that a diet rich in animal products may provide apparent short term benefits in satiety and superficial metrics like muscle gain, but it's one of the the worst things you can do if you're interested in health and longevity beyond middle age.
If you have followed such a diet for any significant period of time, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it's pretty much irreversible damage (aside from theoretical extreme low-cholesterol diets). You can stop the progression with a pretty strict plant based diet, though. If you want to start a thread on a theoretical optimal diet for longevity and reversing heart disease progression that could be an interesting discussion.

Welcome to the forum, and congratulations to your transition.

Thank you for being honest, but why are ethics less important? Are you some kind of a sociopath?

Jebus wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 9:27 am Welcome to the forum, and congratulations to your transition.

Thank you for being honest, but why are ethics less important? Are you some kind of a sociopath?

He might be suffering from health problems, which kind of upends the hierarchy of needs.
Most people would probably eat their own mothers to save themselves if they thought they were under an existential threat.